To think that the mansion tax breaks the principles of taxation

[NorthXNorthWest]

Most taxes fall into:
Income you receive
Profit you realise
Spending you choose

Council tax sit outisde of this. Its more like levy based valuation bandings and was a quick and dirty fix after the poll tax fiasco. It is effectively a service charge not a wealth tax.

Whereas mansion tax is the government estimating the value your actual house, then treating this valuation as pure profit then taxing you on this. Given the majority of homes are purchased with mortgages and paid for by already taxed money:

Why is

Mansion Tax = Estmated value × %

More reasonable than

CGT = Profit * % (Profit = Actual sales price - (Purchase price + actutal costs)

With actual costs being renovations not stamp duty or interest paid on your mortgage

I am not in the mansion tax bracket. I do accept that some taxes need to rise but I don't believe this is the solution.

I suspect it won't be long.

People hate inheritance tax though (even though most won't pay it) which is when you could tax on house profits. Trouble is of course is that it's fairly easy to avoid with inheritance planning so it becomes a tax on putting all your eggs in one basket. Nobody rich is really affected by it.

Or to simplify it there’s two categories-

taxes @NorthXNorthWest accepts

taxes @NorthXNorthWestdoesnt accepts

It’s not about how many it hits, it’s what it does to behaviour. £2m+ owners who can, sit tight. Those those near the line suddenly discover “fixtures and fittings”, and £3 -£5m buyers might just absorb. We haven’t even seen the damage from the council tax revaluations yet.

Meanwhile this false-flag tax still ignores the real drivers of inequality and just hands discounted stock to the cash buyers waiting to hoover it up.

I’m sorry but my violin is really really tiny on this issue. As it was for the couple on £120k complaining about the tax relief changes on ISAs on the bbc website.

My objection to it is the north/south divide. So someone in an expensive London house pays, while someone with a bigger house in the north where prices are lower pays nothing - that doesn’t seem fair to me. It seems like a tax on the SE.

I am not affected by this policy but but I recognise what it does and where it is heading. I accept that I will have to pay more tax because I accept that comes with living in civilised society. What I don’t accept is being told to swallow bad policy that pretends to tackle inequality while actually entrenching it. If you’re going to ask people to pay more, the least you can do is target the causes of inequality, not load more pressure onto the consequences of a broken system.

It takes a special kind of person to be so wrapped up in jealousy and ignorance that they can’t even recognise the government screwing other people over. Mocking savers for being upset when the goalposts on ISAs get moved isn’t insight, it just advertises how little you know. If I was you I would give up the violin routine, you wouldn’t recognise a good tune even if it hit you in the face.

So the real issue is that people in the North might miss out on being hit by a bad tax? Don't worry the council tax brands will stick it to them...

Why aren't you focused on why the government can get away with imposing a bad tax? The North isn’t the problem here. You are fighting the wrong enemy.

I think you miss off a doo...

I’m not affected by the mansion tax. If you put down the violins and paused the knuckle-dragging for just a second, you might finally hear the point whistling past.

Sadly, I suspect they were not the only ones. And so it begins...

They learned their lesson from the Poll Tax which is why they started small this time. Who is going to kick up a fuss for the 'wealthy'...

This will happen. Look at where student loans started...

I’m not jealous or ignorant. I mean you have no idea of my financial circumstances to know if I need to be jealous do you? But I will save my sympathy for people struggling to feed their kids rather than people moaning that their preferred method of saving is now less tax efficient.

Moan, moan, moan.

I’m someone that spends probably too much of their lives looking at tax policy. This is a terrible policy. Anyone with a house that is deemed just over £2m will fight the valuation tooth and nail. Our tax courts will be stuffed to the rafters with valuation disputes a. The fact that HMRC deems a property to be over £2m automatically devalues it by a couple of hundred thousand. I don’t think many will try to avoid it. You don’t see much stamp duty avoidance to do with messing with the valuation as doing so is very dodgy and could invalidate your ownership of your property.

But yes, a bad tax due to lazy implementation.

It is actually possible to have sympathy for both.

I’m sure it is. Knock yourself out.

'Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime'.

People struggling don’t need endless handouts to trap them there, they need short-term support and real routes into skills, work and productivity - similar to the Nordic states provision from what I understand of it. Saving drives growth, growth drives wages, and wages pay for benefits and the support that feeds kids. Attack saving and work and you don’t help the poor or starving children you just make the river have fewer fish to feed an ever increasing number of mouths.

A working couple on £120k, being productive and doing the right things, aren’t the ones to sneer at. I save my contempt for the people who hand out sympathy and cheques just to keep people stuck where they are. That’s not support it's a noose.

This

It’s a veritable can of worms: bank valuation for the mortgage, government valuation for tax, actual sale price in the market. Potentially three prices for one house. What could possibly go wrong?

Hello, kettle! Is that you?

But it also means that the people who bought houses years ago, lived in them for years, now have to find income to stay in them or sell and move (far) away.

But those get no sympathy from the baying packs of wolves appearing on MN because obviously if a person or pensioner lives in a £2m house, even if they didnt buy a £2m house then they should sell it... (because only the real rich should have £2m houses, not the fake ones)

I fit into neither category

Give a man a fish and he eats it. Give a man a fishing rod, and you never bloody see him again cos he will always be out fishing :-)

Nordic states have really high tax. They are famous for it. Helsinki is not a great Hen or Stag destination for a boozy weekend. . They high tax everything.

Random link here "

Highest Tax Paying Countries: Complete List for 2025 | Millionaire Migrant

Quote your bit here : " I save my contempt for the people who hand out sympathy and cheques just to keep people stuck where they are. "

So you seem to say Nordic states have the best system for getting folk off benefits and into work. To strive.

And you have contempt for the people who hand out cheques and sympathy.

Take a guess at what countries lead the world in the size of the Cheques they hand out. Yup, it's the Nordic countries. They have both the highest tax, and hand out the biggest cheques.

Another random link here, with info on that.

Social Safety Nets: Leading Countries Investing in Human Capital Building Economic Health (exaputra.com)

Data from the Nordic states strongly suggest high taxation, and a well funded social safety net does work.

Do you have contempt for the Nordic states ?

The Nordic countries also rate very highly for quality of life, and on happiness indexes. Wonder if there could be a connection?