To refuse to pay this nursery charge

[Jeronnemo]

2 children in nursery. Been really happy there. A few niggles but nothing major. This month's bill had a £40 per child charge for an activity that they only do in winter. It usually kicks in in December through to April but this time they've charged it early. The issue is that they've not actually done the activity yet. I spoke to the manager about it and she was very abrasive and came out with some absolute nonsense about why it was on the bill. She lied and expected me to just suck it up. I'm livid but the conversation is over as far as she's concerned and if I push it any further, I risk being asked to leave. Do I just write it off for the sake of peace and my blood pressure?

£80 is steep for something that didn't happen! That works out a bit less than £10 a week and if you multiply that over all the children in the nursery it's a fair sum of money. The omitted to tell you so that is pretty close to lying in my world. I would be withholding payment.

I don't understand what people don't understand?!

I agree with the vast majority, you’ve not explained with enough detail and/or clarity what happened or what your problem is. My assumption would be that the payments will just stop a month before the activity finishes.

My guess is that the nursery is struggling with cash flow maybe- which could be why you didn’t get a very straight conversation with the staff about it. Though £40 per child isn’t going to get them far…

You mentioned that you usually pay for this activity Dec - Apr.

But what isnt clear is have you paid in advance where normally you wouldnt? Or have you paid in advance as usual but then discovered the activity you paid for hasnt happened/isnt happening?

Hi OP

You might want to edit your OP to say you've been charged for an activity in novemvers payment but the qctivity didn't take place in November.

I'd be annoyed as well, it's the principle, and also I don't think it's actually legal to charge for a service that hasn't been delivered - it's breach of contract/ misrepresentation. Unless this activity takes a lot of work from their side and they had to buy things in / do a lot of prep in the month then theyve just stolen from you. I'd be considering writing an email pointing this out, but like others I'd be a bit wary they take it out on your child or chuck you out

Thank you. Voice of reason and sensible advice. I need to simmer down about it. It's not the amount of money. It's the injustice, the taking us for fools and the lying that has really got to me.

Well fine if that's your stance, it absolutely isn't mine.

Double post.

Yes you are. You have the audacity to say that you wonder how people get through their day when their comprehension skills are SO evidently lacking…. NO ONE understands what you’re saying, you contradict yourself and make very little sense.

if it was 1 or 2 people not understanding, fair enough, but the majority of people have told you that you make no sense and you retaliate by being rude? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 girl, please.

I'm only half way through my first coffee of the morning and barely awake and I still understood the op. I'm amazed it's caused such confusion. Anyway, maybe follow up the conversation you had with the manager in an email? You can do that perfectly politely but it's harder for her to 'word salad' you. I would consider only paying for the months the activity took place so if it actually runs Dec to March, make your last payment Feb.
Do you know any of the other parents? If you've all been charged for a month you shouldn't have and you all complain then they can't kick you all out...
I must say though, it sounds a bit sinister that you're worried your kids will be asked to leave if you complain about something. That's not right. They have charge of your kids, you should absolutely feel able to speak up.

You're asking whether YABU or if the nursery is. We've heard your side of things but you're not sharing what the nursery is actually saying. This makes me think YABU since otherwise why would you not share the nursery's excuse. If it's a bad excuse, that would make it clear that the nursery ABU.

You’re right. It’s so unfair. We are walking on eggshells with them because if they shut down or served us notice we’d be absolutely stuck. We can’t tell our stories walking as you would with any other business.

We had a terrible manager for a while. Bills were all over the place and it took time and energy every month to query them and have them put right. One time the manager sent out a letter outlining a huge price increase which was just devastating to receive, then the same day sent out a message asking if we could contribute supplies such as stationery, spare clothes, crafting items, toys. It truly outlined her incompetence to send these two communications on the same day!
Luckily she left and I feel calmer but I check the bill each month that’s for sure.

Edit: though one final thought, one must be conscious that our beefs with management don’t trickle down to the poor underpaid staff actually with the children. I was so cross with our setting during the drama above but kept reminding myself it’s not the day to day staff’s fault, and I need them to be kind to my kids and look after them well. So I might not dare withhold a Christmas box of biscuits!!!

You say that you couldn't understand what reason the manager provided as it made no sense, it was delivered too fast, was word salad etc so maybe in that poorly delivered explanation there was a reason, maybe she has poor communication skills when being confronted in a hostile way etc. So just send an email querying if the £40 or in your case £80 will be refunded at some stage or will it come off the final months activity?

Is this a large nursery? Are all of the families not annoyed over this? Surely there must be families who have more than 2 kids who would likely be causing uproar if they were done out of £120/£160+ ?

And also you keep saying the nature of the activity doesnt matter...but it really does!
Did they have to hire someone in? Buy supplies? Extra food? An external vendor organised? Transport organised? Maybe they paid the activity, it had a no refund policy and for some reason it didnt go ahead, the vendor was a no show and they had already paid? The transport broke down on the way to them and is now refusing a refund? They booked out a swimming pool, but had a high rate of tummy bug and had to cancel but now the pool wont refund (i know this isn't the case...but this is why it matters)

OP isn’t asking for an investigation on the problem. She’s clearly asked whether to suck it up or take it further.

There’s no reason why posters can’t take it at face value and answer the actual question. They don’t need to become armchair detectives.

Thank you. You and a couple of other posters have saved my sanity! I broached deducting it from my December bill. I played dumb and pretended that I thought it was a simple accounting error on their behalf. I gave them an easy 'out' but it went down like a shit sandwich and she aggressively told me that no such deduction should be made.

well I understand your problem. You paid Novembers invoice at the start of the month this includes £40 for an active . You presume your child will be doing the activity in November but they don’t.
so yes you have been charged for something you haven’t had .

In that case I would suggest sending a polite note saying you couldn't really understand the explanation given and could they please set it out in writing.

I get it honestly I do, I had the exact same conversation with my SIL, it is unfair but there are people who will pay it to keep the peace so things will not change.
She could suck it up a little better because she was entitled to some funded hours.
If the activity doesn’t take place over the winter at all, depending how long your children have there I would possibly look to change things if there are alternatives.

Now we know it’s an in house activity, I wouldn’t pay the £40 charge for December, if they query it, you say, well I paid for November and it didn’t happen.

I’d email them, asking for a response. Harder to waffle a reply by email than on the phone.
along the lines of ‘further to our telephone conversation re November payment, I was discussing this with another few parents and we are still a little confused. Could you kindly explain why……..’

Would be good if you got a few more parents on board and can cc them into the email to let manager know it’s not just you involved to fob off.
it’s reasonable to expect a clear explanation as to why you have been charged extra for no apparent reason. £40 may not be an enormous amount in relation to overall monthly fee but it’s still £40 that they can’t just decide to take for nothing.

Why would you want to keep your children in a nursery where the manager is dishonest?

I would wonder what else they lie about…

Then what’s the issue ? Are you saying you’ve paid for November and the activity didn’t happen, or are you paying in advance for December ?

Definitely agree that you need to get this in writing. Verbal conversations can’t be proven. And it will be harder for them to lie in writing.

If the activity had a material impact on the situation, I would say so. It involves no additional resource or staff or them being out of pocket in any way.

But OP, please, why not explain the lie she told you rather than repeatedly avoiding the question.

It’s normal to put your concerns in writing. And normal for them to answer your concerns respectfully.
Why would you be fearful of getting taken off their books when they are Ofsted registered and registered with the County Council responsible for distributing funding. You can take your concerns further if you aren’t satisfied.

You are obliged to allow them to answer your concerns in writing properly. And should now follow that process.
Parents should not be at the mercy of unscrupulous nursery services and need to hold them accountable ..if you are certain of your facts.
If your invoicing is incorrect, for whatever reason, you shouldn’t simply roll over and pay it. Why would you want your children under the management of such an unscrupulous company.

I think this reasoning is key here. Without it, no-one can really comment.
My first thought was that they’ve decided to bill in advance this year to cover costs before the activity, therefore you will pay a month early, but you’ll still pay the same number of times.
But I’m assuming this isn’t the case.