To refuse to pay this nursery charge

[Jeronnemo]

2 children in nursery. Been really happy there. A few niggles but nothing major. This month's bill had a £40 per child charge for an activity that they only do in winter. It usually kicks in in December through to April but this time they've charged it early. The issue is that they've not actually done the activity yet. I spoke to the manager about it and she was very abrasive and came out with some absolute nonsense about why it was on the bill. She lied and expected me to just suck it up. I'm livid but the conversation is over as far as she's concerned and if I push it any further, I risk being asked to leave. Do I just write it off for the sake of peace and my blood pressure?

It’s not a good nursery if they are financially incompetent. Which, sadly, many nurseries are.

So what is the bullshit that they are giving you? They must be offering some sort of justification for making the charge?

Exactly. It's deception and tantamount to theft. I've not misunderstood their pricing structure or anything else. They've blatantly lied to cover their tracks.

What did they say when you called them out on the lie?

How did it come to light they aren’t doing the activity? Did your child say or the nursery staff?

Young children sometimes refuse to take part in things that are offered so it might appear they aren’t doing it or was it more structured so they should be taking home paintings or crafts and your child isn’t?

Think about it OP. Why would a bunch of internet strangers misunderstand a situation that you are saying you are explaining clearly. It’s all a conspiracy. Maybe they all work for the nursery….

In seriousness the charge was probably put on the account earlier than expected or they changed the way they charge for it. Can happen. Just check how many payments will be going out in total and what months in total the activity will run for.

Is this really the hill to die on with your nursery?

You need to get all the other parents on board and complain together. She will take it more seriously if there is a group of you, and you are less likely to end up feeling like you have to remove your child.

Good advice

Well that's part of the problem. We have no idea what the manager actually said, just that they 'lied'. The manager might have said that the reason was that they'd changed the payment schedule and op has determined that's a lie. And OP is refusing to answer and questions about what the manager actually said.

It's hard to convey. Not because I'm trying to dodge the question but because it was just a load of word salad that made no sense and was so slippery that it was difficult to pin them down to a single point to effectively challenge it. It was delivered at machine gun pace, so it was hard to interject. I would have had to dissect every point like a criminal barrister and she would have gone nuclear. She was already very defensive because her lies were caught out.

I understood the issue from the first post, but it wasn't clear. OP is writing from a point of understanding as it is her situation, so she didnt explain that the charge was monthly not one overall charge for the period, it also was not explained that the £40 covers November only and will not be carried forward to cover December or is not a pay in advance type situation.
The rude responses didn't help, in fairness the ops post was the issue.
After seeing op's responses I would query how the meeting with the manager went at all, and if there were the correct questions asked but if its a case that the nursery charged for the activity, are simply refusing a refund, will not be doing a second activity in December to make up the price, will not be taking the £40 paid off the bill for Dec/Jan/Feb/Mar or April's bills then obviously op has every right to be annoyed.
Maybe its a case of the activity was organised and paid for in November but could not go ahead for whatever reason (staffing/illness/transport etc) and the contract with the external party for example was no refunds. Since we dont kmow the activity or what "excuse/lie" the nursery told it is hard to give a balanced opinion

I understand that you paid in November for the November activity which you somehow found out didn’t happen.
What I don’t understand is the blatant lie she told. Specifically, what lie?
Did she tell you it had happened when you know for sure it didn’t, or was it just general defensive bullshit which made no sense ?

In any case, if you are absolutely certain, with solid evidence, that the activity for which you paid did not take place and will not take place later, you should put your case very clearly in writing and mention that you were not satisfied with the verbal response given to you on xx date. Tell them you would be very grateful either for a full explanation in writing by the end of next week or the refund of November’s £40.

This is not the case. I'm not stupid for God's sake. If she'd explained about a pricing structure change, I would possible request that their communication be done in advance rather than retrospectively but I would have been able to comprehend something so basic and wouldn't be here complaining.

You honestly have not explained this clearly at all

unless you are actually prepared to swap your DC out of that nursery I'd suck it up on a direct level.

i would also consider notifying my local trading standards team though... presumably the nursery have charged everyone the same so it's a not insignificant amount?

Which is exactly what I want to do but suspect I'll be given notice if I do.

Exactly right and yes, I have considered reporting them.

In actual fact this is fraud but they know they've got you over a barrel and can't do anything about it without risking your nursery place. And £40 multiple times, added to all the other financial 'errors' in their favour they no doubt make, will be a tidy little sideline for them. They know it's small enough that most people won't challenge it. I'd be furious, as you rightly are.
Is it possible to get together with other parents and visit the nursery owner together? They may back down if faced with an angry mob. Or phone your local council. I know that sounds extreme but I'd be so mad that I'd want to explore the options.

A couple of simple questions OP which I think will clear up what honestly is a mess of an explanation.

Was the activity actually planned to happen in November this year and then for some reason didn’t happen in November?

If that is the case then are they going to offset at the other end of Winter, ie: take the last extra payment on 1st Feb but continue the activity to the end of March?

If you paid for a service that wasn’t supplied then you are entitled to a refund. Small claims court?

Billing from nursery’s was like some sort of mystical art. We did the same number of hours each month and every month the amount came out differently! The explanations were always bonkers!

problem is good nurseries are hard to come by and they k ow that you will be loathed to mchange if your kids are settled, or that they have a waitlist so don’t care if you leave or stay.

its shocking customer service and in any other situation most people (because this post shows me that clearly it’s not all!!!) would be cross about it. Communication from nurseries is key but they can often be so blooming awful at it.

i guess you have a few options. If the activity is normally paid dec - Feb, I would be tempted to wait to the final payment in Feb and not pay it. I would also email your complaint to them and explain this wanting an explanation. Having it in writing is always best because I also found that staff would unexpectedly have amnesia about conversations.

alternatively don’t pay December, but they then may prevent your children from doing the activity.

clearly looking for a new place is an option but I imagine locally that will be challenging (and they know it)

or, sadly, suck it up reframe it as a Christmas present and don’t get the staff anything next month.

sadly they often have the upper hand in these situations.

Why thank you. I am indeed a nightmare <preens feathers>

I didn’t say it should be allowed I said it was common in larger childcare settings.

I also said if the OP didn’t like this then she would be perfectly within her rights to remove them from the setting.
I suspect that there isn’t a ton of other nurseries with space and as op has already said she has been largely happily with the service she has received, risking it over £40 per child for one month is a little short sighted.
As I frequently tell my children life isn’t fair we either have to suck it up or change the situation. If OP continues down the path she is on she will lose her places, be unable to work the job she is which must be pretty high pressure/work load not to be entitled to any working tax credits/tax free childcare etc
Would I in her shoes quibble over the £40, no I wouldn’t because the effort and energy would be wasted.

Tempting but it will cause a major fall out and I'll have to move, which I'm considering but I can't just jump ship.