To refuse to pay this nursery charge

[Jeronnemo]

2 children in nursery. Been really happy there. A few niggles but nothing major. This month's bill had a £40 per child charge for an activity that they only do in winter. It usually kicks in in December through to April but this time they've charged it early. The issue is that they've not actually done the activity yet. I spoke to the manager about it and she was very abrasive and came out with some absolute nonsense about why it was on the bill. She lied and expected me to just suck it up. I'm livid but the conversation is over as far as she's concerned and if I push it any further, I risk being asked to leave. Do I just write it off for the sake of peace and my blood pressure?

Urm.....no I'm still unclear.

Thing happens in December, usually. Costs £40.
You paid £40 for the thing already.
It isn't December yet so thing hasn't happened.

Now is it:
(A) You want a refund because the thing isn't going to happen in December or any other time = reasonable to ask for a refund.
(B) You want a refund because the thing hasn't happened yet but it will, so you want a refund now (29th Nov) only then to be billed for it again in December (2 days away) = unreasonable to ask for a refund.
(C) Something else entirely.

This is the first clear explanation. Before that, I had no idea what you were talking about.

I'm with you; if you paid for November and it's not taken place, you need a refund. I can't believe people are saying let it go, it's only 40 quid. It's theft.

But then again, I went in to DS's nursery one morning to take up an issue with the manager (she was never there at pick up) and could see quite clearly written in the day book 'Mrs Cycling was moaning again last night'. I pointedly looked at it, looked at her, she closed the book, and I asked her if the staff had reported my dissatisfaction with the food (again) to her, or if they had just said that I was a moaner. Custard is not a pudding, it's something you pour on a pudding and if she was here at pick up, I wouldn't need to 'moan' to the staff. Our relationship soured after that 😆

I only had your posts showing and I understood it but it wasn't clear right away. basically you were charged for something in November for £40 that wasn't actually done and therefore you want to then not pay for December to balance it out. I agree with you on this one.

Initially, when reading the early posts on this thread, I was of the view that the nursery was in the wrong.

However, in light of the manner in which the OP has responded to posters on this thread, I'd be very interested to hear the nursery's side before drawing any conclusions. They may have had their reasons for shutting her down, and I suspect they may be quite happy to see her leave.

She was charged in November for said activity (unusual for her as the charge is usually from Dec-Apr but this year it was included on Novembers bill)
However the activity did not go ahead in November for whatever reason.
Op has stated that the charge in November does not cover December...she will pay again in December for the December activity. So I assume the creche manager has made it clear to her that the November charge will not cover December, and she states she will not give a refund for November.
So basically you pay the month the activity is on, not in advance, so they've paid for Novembers activity but the activity didnt happen in November and now they wont give her a refund.

A lot of people thought that maybe they just paid in November to cover the upcoming December activity but op has stated this is not the case.

@Jeronnemo I totally understand why you're so annoyed OP - I would be too. And it's additionally frustrating because, due to the shortage of childcare provision, you can't just "take your business elsewhere" so to speak. So you and the other parents are having to suck up something which is patently wrong. The trouble is, if they'll pull a stunt like this and get away with it, what next?
Sorry I don't have any answers OP - obviously it would be great if you could move your DC to another nursery and give it to this one with both barrels, but I understand that's easier said than done.

Ahh so it is a recurring charge for a recurring thing then? Rather than a one-off-charge for a one-off thing.

The OP paid for an ongoing activity that hasn't yet started and wants a refund for the first missed month.

That wasn't clear.

Thanks!

I think if 30 ppl are asking then its not clear. Those that are asking are simply not being able to match up the dots because the posts are NOT clear. Others who aren't asking have made an assumption that op has been conned based on certain statements she has made. Let's prove it right now because I still dont get it and you obviously do (not saying that to be rude I genuinely mean I dont understand and I want you to explain it to me) has op been charged for an activity the kids are never going to do or has she been charged one month in advance and will continue to be charged so the number of charges matches the number of activities. Please confirm this and fingers crossed for all of us idiots who don't get it, op will confirm yes or no.

Gosh, the OP comes across as really aggressive in her comments.

I don't like aggressive people.

i think perhaps part of the reason people are not understanding is because what you are describing is so egregious they want to believe it’s a miscommunication of some sort with a reasonable explanation, rather than them effectively scamming all the parents out of an extra £40. Also because you haven’t told us what their excuse was.

I think i would wait until the last month and see if the april bill includes the fee for april and then if it does the second it comes in contact all the parents to say “just checking if you were incorrectly billed for april? the nursery told me wouldn’t need to pay it because we paid for november and it didnt happen then.” then just see what happens.

The bit I am still not clear on is what is the lie? Did she say that it did happen in November when it didn’t, or that you weren’t charged in November when you were?

I’ve read through this thread and I’m trying to make sense of it too. This poster has also tried her best and you react like this.

I also THINK what you’re saying is you were expecting to pay £40 per month for an activity that would take place every month until April, but despite having paid for November you’ve found out they’re not running the activity in November, which means they’re stealing £40 per child in the month of November, it the activity will start in December.

of course this is chocking on the part of the nursery but I also THINK from what I’ve seen here that you might be the problem and you didn’t want to hear what the nursery had to say.

Why and how on earth are they getting away with charging every parent £40 a month for an activity that involves no extra resources or staffing?!!

If you communicate as appallingly IRL as you do on this thread, I am not surprised the manager doesn't like you. I wouldn't either.

Perhaps worth clarifying with the nursery whether the earlier charge was, for example, because they've been asked to put a deposit down for the activity in advance, and maybe there will be no charge for the final month or a refund at a later date. I'm assuming with your phenomenal communication skills you have gone down the route of politely clarifying this first with the manager, of course, and you haven't jumped to conclusion that they charged you for nothing. If you checked this and the nursery has in fact overcharged with no valid reason then it's reasonable to ask for a refund for this activity for November.

It isn't people's comprehension skills that are the problem it is your inability to write coherently that is the issue.

It's slightly patronizing to suggest that the OP doesn't understand how her nursery, that she's been using for at least a year, charges especially as it was clear from the start that the activity hadn't taken place and the person she spoke to accepted that it hadn't

And yes, agreed with PP that I've never heard of a nursery charging extra £40pcm for additional activities - what kind of activities for young childre cost this much and what do they need as an extra in the winter and for several months after? Don't they offer sufficient activities as part of their standard care? Is this a compulsory activity and payment on top of your bill? Do they involve third parties, take them out, what is the activity that costs extra? It's rather unusual for such young children.

To clarify - it is added to the Nov bill that you paid either at the start of Nov/end of October, so the yoga is effectively being charged TWO months in advance?

As she has shut you down, I would monitor how many months of yoga your children actually do (ie is it 3?) and make sure that you are charged 3x for it. If it turns out that you have a 4th charge in Feb, you write to senior management. ie. Park it for now, but monitor it?

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I agree with PP, way upthread, that this may well be their way of balancing the books to counteract the below-cost payments that they receive from the government for 'free' spaces.

If they levied it on things like nappies, parents would just say they'll send in their own or they have children that are toilet trained etc.; but if it's for 'an activity', they can't do that.

They could be scared at getting into trouble for offering free places that turn out not to be free, so maybe they're hoping that parents will understand that the 'activity' - that likely doesn't really cost an extra £40 a month anyway - is an excuse for them to charge a top-up to make ends meet. They might give the name of a nice, normal-sounding activity, but the reality is that the 'activity' is paying the winter heating bill (at even higher commercial rates) to keep the place open.

They should probably work on their delivery of the message, so that everybody is on the same page; but as OP is clearly 'assertive' - they could be seriously worried that she will report them if they spell it out what the actual money is really to pay for and leave them and their business right in the crap.

Maybe start by answering the question?

Either it's a scam or - much more likely imho - it's a 'read between the lines' scenario whereby their books don't balance otherwise, because of the below-cost payments that the government give them for 'free' nursery places.

Do you communicate like this in real life? If so perhaps this could be the source of your original problem . Or let me guess, it’s ALL of us and your nursery that have the communication problem?

There seems to be quite a bit of confusion.

Whilst I do understand this is annoying you, I do also think it would be more helpful to have been given the full picture for people to accurately assess the situation.

A load of word salad means nothing. What actually was said to you as to why you would not be getting the November refund?

What is the activity that you pay for? Are you absolutely sure there is no cost to them if it is cancelled. This is quite key.

Are you also quite sure that an additional future month of this activity will not be tagged onto the end of term for which there will be no charge - hence an even balance?

Honestly you haven't explained this well at all.

But to answer you original question, for the sake of £40 if you are happy with the nursery you will just have to let it go. But I'm making that comment rather in the dark as you haven't actually supplied all the necessary information.,