Not able to eat at school? Punitive systems

[RainbowDaffodil]

My son has started at a new secondary school. Firstly, I have no issue with detentions and I welcome interventions… but surely all lunchtime is madness?

He was late for example yesterday (bus, traffic -perfect storm. He’s usually very early), punctuality detention is lunchtime 1.25 to 2.05. Lunchtime is 1.25 to 2.15 but the canteen isn’t functioning for the last five min of lunch, which is when he’d get there.

The intervention he’s given in two subjects is the same time two lunchtimes a week. 1.25 to 2.05. I got him to say to the teachers he wanted to go, but he needs to eat. They shrugged and said he’s down for interventions and has to go. No solution or dialogue.

The school day is full, 8.15-3.15. 15 min break at 11:20. Some days they also have expectations for after school work too.

Is this in anyway remotely normal nowadays? My son is a robust kinda kid, friends and confident, but he’s starting to look run down. I get this as I’d be run down! He used to eat me out of house and home but lately he’s going 8-4 without food a few days a week, even with a packed lunch it’s been eaten after school. It’s partly getting time and partly the access to toilets not been there, they seem to manage it restricting drink and food.

He works hard, likes teachers but from my view it’s a punitive system of constant directed time, little access to food or toilets and a behaviour point system where getting one positive point in six weeks is a feat but sitting on a pen and snapping it can land you in detention for not being properly equipped (silly mistake, put his biro in a pocket and sat down). Another behaviour point was for being slow with work-I helped him to understand it at home, he was just stuck and didn’t get a new concept. No negative points are for rudeness/ disruption or any active actions but it’s so easy to get them it feels.

Communication is on the app and all one way. Recently I noticed he had some unauthorised absences so I emailed to ask if he was truanting or it was an error. No reply, but they disappeared on the app. I contacted them too at the start, he wasn’t given an IT account when he started and all the homework is online. He asked lots of times and I emailed but it was weeks of detentions for not doing homework while he couldn’t access the system.

It feels nuts!

I suspect the school drills its pupils into the system from year seven, and as your son is a late entrant he is tripping up over the different culture. Most of his peers would have got this out of the way earlier in their school career.

As others have said, try, for the sake of your son, to put a positive spin on his predicament and engage with the school to help him slot in and yet not be demoralized.

Moving schools can be difficult, but for your son’s sake it would be best not to dwell on the negatives. Try to see it as an opportunity for improvement.

My grandson has the same problem. Slightest thing and teachers are screaming at him then automatic detention.He's not allowed to explain himself referred to being cheeky or answering back.A lot of the teachers are disrespectful so when he responds disrespectfully another detention.I know teaching kids is a stressful job but why can't they be spoken and listened to in a calm manner.

I’m not making excuses but it’s because teachers are being bullied and threatened by Headteachers and their teams of flunkies. Schools are becoming vile places.

Tbf, no reports of screaming teachers. More a silent system.

Today I dropped him off, saw him walk in early. He has a late mark. Swears blind he wasn’t late to form, I watched him walk in.

He also got a ‘serious incident’ behaviour record on the app. For repeated failure to submit homework. The homework had 10 boxes. He filled in 9. Shouldn’t have just given up when he got stuck on the last one, but it seems a bit harsh for a first bit of non submitted home when he did 90%.

Just for a flavour of a day!

My grandson was so excited when he joined his secondary school(he's yr7) but he is starting to dread going in.Feels like he's constantly singled out and when tries to explain shouted down or put into isolation.I know he probably will be drawn into situations(I'm not naive t o think otherwise)but I and his mom have always told him speak to people how you would like to be spoken to and he cannot grasp why some of the teachers are so awful.

Seems there is more going on in the background than you are aware of. He may have been on the school premises on time, but if he was not present in class when the register was taken…

Your latest update suggests to me that your son’s attitude to attendance and homework is lackadaisical. Speak to to school to find out what is really going on and then take it from there.

Hi, Op, there's a lot of information here and four pages at the time of my writing, and I'm not going to make any comment about the school or its system because I haven't had an experience with a school like this, but could I go back to your original comment?

As for your son getting a lunch time detention that lasts almost the entire length of the lunch time, literally he is released with 10 minutes to spare in which case the canteen is not available... I'm thinking the best thing to do is to pack him with some high energy/high protein / wrapped and ready to go (do not need refrigeration / do not need reheating) foods. Think like what you would bring with you if you were going on a very grueling hike. Like top quality protein bars/jerky...
You might have to do a little research into survival camping/army type food ideas, for things that are ready to eat, room temperature, but nutritionally packed for your growing son's needs.

The situation does not sound good at all, I don't like the idea of schools being able to incarcerate a student for detention for almost their entire lunch hour, what if he were diabetic? He couldn't go around skipping meal times. I tell you, one good faint in class which then results in finding out that he hadn't had lunch because the schools been putting him in detentions the entire lunch time, might possibly get somewhere.
It always takes an incident or to before a stupid system gets tweaked. As far as the administration is concerned, if a student breaks their rules, the punishment is detention during lunch time. You don't get to eat your lunch? Too bad. It's part of the punishment. But if there were an incident as a result of this punishment, they'd have to change their tune.

Not suggesting that your son takes up fainting as his new hobby, just saying. But as a short-term solution, try looking into the good ready to eat foods he can keep in a backpack for those 10 minutes of lunch time that he gets

@RainbowDaffodil that could be because he was actually late to the lesson. We have a window for the first lesson/ form and if they mess around or are otherwise engaged they may be marked late.

As he is year 11 I would see the interventions as a good thing and I imagine they add to support mocks. We have just had them too. They now take the foot off the gas until Christmas.

If I was the ‘mum’ in this situation I would contact your HOY and their pastoral manager and mention he is FSM. This is a huge area of concern as for some this is the only meal they have. He should at the very least be given a sandwich pack to eat. The school is being paid for his lunch. Every child eats a meal at my school.

I understand how difficult it is when you move in year 11 and you both have had to hit the ground running. The meal thing though I would be complaining about.

I strongly disagree with the whole ‘teachers don’t deserve the respect and it’s like a prison comments’ WE don’t make the rules. They come from SLT as do punitive behaviour policies. If I try and bend or accommodate I get hauled up so I have to be diplomatic. We do deserve respect from our students as we work bloody hard!

I think some posters will always have a ‘what if’- I could be stating detail after detail and another scenario will be put forward based on their perceptions- He’s probably lazy etc as in their school/ experience they believe xyz is the case really. It’s getting into a bit of a loop.

The late was cancelled off the app first thing this morning, he wasn’t late as I said and I messaged them to say I dropped him off so he didn’t enter through lates. The app now shows it is removed, though I can see the linked detention isn’t cancelled so I guess that’s going to be the issue when he comes home if he doesn’t go to it. They didn’t reply so I don’t know how it was added or why, they just changed it after my brief message. My sons theory is he’s mixed up with another boy often, that may not be accurate.

I’ll leave it to stand I disagree with the ‘serious incident’ report for the homework. He handed in 5 pieces yesterday, 1 90% complete. Behaviour point maybe, but the school lists ‘serious incident’ points in their policy such as fighting etc. I don’t think it’s proportionate. It’s his first piece in that subject not completed and aside from the ones where he couldn’t access the system it’s his second homework incomplete (he forgot a piece in September, left it in the hallway). It’s not part of a pattern before that’s raised that could be serious. Homework is high volume and he is doing it. He’s btw never had a behaviour point for active misbehaviour. The teacher didn’t speak to him about the point or say why either.

thanks for comments, but I’m unlikely to reply past this point as it’s getting to be a loop of people sharing their experiences/ perceptions and answering through that lens in the most. Ultimately yes he is entitled to FSM, no it can’t be used outside lunchtime at the set time in anyway (yes, I hear some of you have different rules in your schools) and I’m not really wanting to spend loads on extra packed lunches to support the system they have which he may or may not have time to eat (yes I hear some of you do). I’ve written a calm letter I’ll hand in later with clear points about accessing food, and asking them to clearly state how this will be ensured on a daily basis as it is important and his entitlement. I have raised it is funded and that it’s already not been used on quite a few occasions as he hasn’t been able to (yes I hear some of you have ways of getting FSM in your schools that are different- I’ve checked with him and other families about this and read the website information). For now I’ve just addressed the eating issue.

Lots of kids (and teachers for that matter) just don’t eat and have a big meal after school.

Yes but that's fucking bonkers and bullshit. How are they supposed to learn when they haven't eaten properly?

If DDs were starting secondary school now, knowing what I know now, I'd be starting a parent's union to stop this kind of thing. The secondary education system needs a massive overhaul.

I agree, OP.

And then they will be wondering why 20-30% of kids have poor attendance, and many of the others have poor mental health.

If he is entitled to FSM, then the school should be treating it as a priority that he actually gets a chance to eat a hot meal at lunch. I'm shocked that they're not.