to be fed up of hearing 'I've worked hard for my money'

[newbluesofa]

Lots of chat on MN recently about taxes on high earners. So heard lots of 'we have this money because we work bloody hard for it' and honestly I'm sick of it and think the people who say it are selfish.

Nurses work incredibly hard, long shifts, difficult job. Carers provide absolutely essential service, again shift work, difficult hours, difficult job. Teachers provide essential work, I know multiple teachers and they all devote evenings, weekends, school holidays to the detriment of their own families. All of these jobs also have huge emotional tolls. So 'I've worked hard for my money' means nothing to me, because a lot of people work a lot harder for a lot less.

I posted this unthread! 14 years ago I was mainscale with TLR on basic rate. I’m now one of the “broadest shoulders”.

I am a teacher. I think that we over tax high earners and the private sector. This impacts business and tax take. This means less money for education which is why teachers are now considering strike action.

I had to change dentist because, as mum, she was worse off over 100k. She works hard. She is fabulous. She’s had to drop hours. Less tax, Less dental hours. Same issue arises with consultants.

All our STEM talent is being headhunted. Without those workers we have the global IT meltdown of 2024 daily. No engineering development. They are highly paid and pretty essential. Likewise engineers, medical specialists, etc. These people all have skills which can’t just be picked up which is why they are in global demand and salaries reflect that. Not everyone is born with the aptitude to be a nuclear physicist.

I’m not sure what you mean, but we didn’t want to be a family that put our children in full time childcare, so one of us needed to be earning enough for the other to give up work. I had greater earning potential than DH, so we didn’t even think about trying to have children until I earned enough that he could comfortably be a SAHD. He doesn’t care about his career so the impact of kids on his career never factored into our decisions.

I have (female) peers earning the same as me who do have kids, so it isn’t necessarily one or the other - but if somebody asked me what I sacrificed to be a high earner, I absolutely did sacrifice having children.

As it happens I’m now not that bothered, but in my 20s I would have been adamant I wanted kids. Now it’s come to it, we try but wouldn’t seek medical assistance.

Yes, I'm aware that former colleagues (in Scotland) are now paying over the odds in tax because of the differing tax bands here.

I was a PT and then PTC and I never became a higher rate payer.

Agree. I worked much harder for 2 pounds an hour than I do for my 65k p/a salary.

Ok, so you work hard. You're not the only ones. Check your privelige

Hard, hard agree.

Quite!

It’s not the moaning itself, it’s the justification of the moaning being “because I work hard”.

The only person I knew ( she is no longer with us) who used to regularly play the ‘we worked hard card’ actually had next to no paid work from the age of 22 till she died. I’m not saying she didn’t work hard domestically but anything they had acquired was by the paid work of her husband. My FIL on the other hand is very honest on his 80s and says my H and my son work far harder than he ever did - they regularly had 2 hour pub lunches, final salary pensions and knocked off at 5.15 most days.

What's wrong with saying they work hard? Why is it wrong for higher earners to have opinions about their own money, that they earn?

To me it’s not so much about working hard but the responsibility. My current mentally tiring and carries a lot of responsibility it keeps me awake at night and there’s a constant feeling that an error will cost my career. I have had other jobs that are paid less well are exhausting but it’s more physical than a stress that you carry with you.

No, that's not who they are targeting. They're targeting everyone who thinks that they should be included in the "eat the rich", "tax the rich" drum beating. Which in my opinion should be reserved for the Starbucks, musks and such.

I also disagree with the rhetoric that all jobs are consented to. And also that people are better off on benefits - it's a really specific set of circumstances where that is true 99% of people are better off in work, including paying for childcare because benefits don't fall of a cliff.

There’s a lot of “biggery and who works hardest and who’s the cleverest and studied harder” on MN at the moment.

People do various jobs - as long as they work and help provide for themselves, what’s the issue?

Some essential jobs are low paid. 🤷‍♀️

Earning big money is also a function of family background/connections in a lot of cases. Although there are exceptions, most people with money that I have met come from families with money. They could afford the private schools, the networking, the unpaid work (at a family friend's company) to get a foot in the door etc. Those family friends would not look the side a council estate kid is on. So it's definitely not just about effort or merit.

I also don't agree with that. As a social worker I hold far more responsibility than as a product manager, yet get paid about 2/3s of the wages.

But if you’re a teacher earning eg £52k, only a tiny amount of your pay is taxed at higher rate, so you’re not really considered to have the broadest shoulders and you’re not really bearing the biggest share of the tax burden. People on way more than that have the broadest shoulders. Yours are just a bit broader than someone on eg £30k.

I am sick of hearing it. I earn well over 6 figures and yes I work hard. But the hardest working person I know is a social worker - often working evenings/weekends. Day to day dealing with things others (probably myself included) would struggle to cope with and maintain their mental health. Second probably to a friend who is a mental health nurse.

these are degree educated professionals and they will never earn what some do. I’m proud to shut up and pay my taxes when I look at people like that.

yes. High earners mostly work hard, sure. But I think luck often plays a part - my husband used to work with care leavers and I think there’s so much luck in coming from a stable home, that we have our health etc. I was the first person on both sides to go to university and I think that’s probably a big step for people.

Be proud of yourself for being successful but then be proud to pay your taxes. Think about how things might be for others before insensitively complaining. It feels really sad that we are a country of people with no community who only think about themselves.

Do you mean she was worse off on 100k because she didn’t get her free childcare hours?

I am boggled (as someone who didn’t get them either fyi) by people who say this. The >£100k element you lose means you pay an extra £3k ish PA, for 2-2.5 years.

what person on >£100k thinks it’s worthwhile quitting or reducing hours to avoid paying that?!?

Yes I am sick of hearing it. Especially when it's followed by "Maybe if you worked a bit harder/got a better paid job/ more hours/got rid of Netflix/sky"

Everyone works hard. Luck comes into it sometimes as well.

Are you being deliberately obtuse? I’ve already explained it - the belief that they shouldn’t have to pay more tax “because they work hard” - as if others don’t.

NBU. My nan never worked a day in her life and is sitting on millions. Must be nice.

I get more irritated by pensioners who worked part-time for a few years after kids left home followed by taking early retirement at 50 then complaining they paid all their life for their State Pension.

I worked hard. It was called being an unpaid carer. I was on duty 24/7, 365 days a year. I was nurse, carer, therapist, administrator, etc, all rolled into one. And all for £55 a week at the time. I had to give up my career to do this exhausting virtually unpaid role. So yes, high earners, count your blessings. You got lucky as well as working hard. Some of us had no choice but to work hard for very little financial reward.

I think a better way of thinking of "sacrifices" is "choices". I earn well (although nowhere near the six figure sum). There have been choices along the way e.g. e.g. low earnings in a training position to gain the skills I needed or spending less time with my family, but the benefits are not just financial - I have an interesting, stimulating job which I think contributes positively to the world. And I could have become more senior, but that would have meant spending even less time with my family and I wasn't prepared to do that. But not everyone has these choices - they may not have had access to the basic education needed or family support (moral rather than necessarily financial) - so having choices is itself a privilege.

To me the responsibility payment is to do with the unique set of kills. Hands-up (sack me) it's my fault, is not the taking responsibility that attracts the $$$. It's setting the organisational strategy, pulling the funds together by convincing the stakeholders, mobilising the teams etc, knowing what to do and having the courage to do it - finding people who have that ability is hard, they are in high demand and consequently they get paid the big bucks.