to be fed up of hearing 'I've worked hard for my money'

[newbluesofa]

Lots of chat on MN recently about taxes on high earners. So heard lots of 'we have this money because we work bloody hard for it' and honestly I'm sick of it and think the people who say it are selfish.

Nurses work incredibly hard, long shifts, difficult job. Carers provide absolutely essential service, again shift work, difficult hours, difficult job. Teachers provide essential work, I know multiple teachers and they all devote evenings, weekends, school holidays to the detriment of their own families. All of these jobs also have huge emotional tolls. So 'I've worked hard for my money' means nothing to me, because a lot of people work a lot harder for a lot less.

I am a bit confused as to how the thread has become focused on white privileged and ethnic minority groups to be perfectly honest. Seems a separate topic

People were talking about how it's not just a case of 'just work harder' because some people have privileges others don't. @PrawnsForDinner said they don't think being able-bodied is a privilege so was then asked if they believe in white privilege.

It has blown out of proportion because @PrawnsForDinnercouldn’t just answer the question. It was really only a side point to my initial point.

Exactly

I see ok. I don’t think it is a case of just work harder. I also think to some extent it’s luck. There aren’t enough high salary positions for absolutely everyone. Also, sometimes it is who you know.

A report in 2021 found white children from working class backgrounds are significantly underachieving when compared to other cohorts. For various reasons. The current Ed sec has called in a national disgrace and has launched another investigation.

@PeonyPatch I think it came out of trying to show that privilege exists in lots of different ways, not just Eton and ponies, and hard work can only help so much when these privileges - whiteness, being able bodied, not experiencing childhood abuse, whatever - are taken into account. But I think that's telling me I've spent way too long on this thread, and need to go to bed with a good book now!

@newbluesofa fair play to you for fighting the fight here. I'm annoyed and tired and tapping out, but I think you're spot on.

Absolutely, but it’s a very different issue to the lack of representation of black and minority groups in very senior roles. This is a thread about high earners.

To be fair, I have also read reports and research to support the argument that it is white, working-class boys that are at most disadvantage now.

that’s not to say they are the only disadvantaged group though, there are many others (disability being one of them).

I'm sure those are worth reading, but I am honestly more concerned by the low aspirations of the ordinary white working people. Every POC I meet locally seems to have a medical qualification. Our pharmacist is second generation and UK born, and AFAIK considered a valued and well-liked person. DH knows the person better than I and holds them in high regard.

I am off to watch I’m a celeb now, I need something light-hearted and it’s my guilty pleasure! 😂

It’s likely a cyclical class / family problem, but agree it needs addressing.

Yes it’s a very real issue. I don’t deny it. But it’s an entirely separate issue to lack of representation in very senior roles. White is still very much on trend in the boardroom!

I really don't want to get into it because it's not the point of the thread, but the concept of white privilege doesn't mean that all white people are more privileged than all non-white people in every way.

For example there have been multiple studies done where the same CVs have been submitted for jobs but one with a white sounding name and one with a non-white sounding name, and multiple studies have shown bias in favour of the white sounding names even when the CVs had the same experience. However the concept doesn't mean that white people cannot experience hardship or that they are privileged in every aspect. It is just a description of one way in which a person can have a privilege that others may not.

Eg male privilege. There are lots of negatives women experience just because they are women, so our culture has male privilege. It doesn't mean that every man is more privileged than every women in every way. A black man has male privilege, while a white woman has white privilege. One isn't better or worse than the other, it's just a shorthand for the ways they are likely to experience bias from others.

Reverse Oppression Olympics - you succeeded and did well in life? Well it's all because of privilege, privilege, provilege

Quite @pocketpairs

Regarding the gender pay gap doesn't the data show that earnings drop off for women after the first kid?

Not the finest minds on here. They don't understand what you are saying and never will.

I don't know does it? Have you tried googling it?

Oh gosh. That “one job” you told me you had earlier…

It’s “mother” isn’t it.

I did. That's the answer I got. Also on education. I saw that on educational scores boys narrowly beat out girls on maths, physics, economics.

Earnings are relatively stable and equal till the first child. And that's when earnings drop off.

Oh dear lord. It doesn't mean white people don't live hard lives - many of them do. It doesn't mean that at all 🙄

No my kids are grown now. All 18+. I actually have a PAYE job now.

Ok, what's your point?

I’m actually the one that was banging on about privilege, and I’m a high earner. No it wasn’t entirely privilege, I did have to work hard also, I didn’t just marry into it.