to be fed up of hearing 'I've worked hard for my money'

[newbluesofa]

Lots of chat on MN recently about taxes on high earners. So heard lots of 'we have this money because we work bloody hard for it' and honestly I'm sick of it and think the people who say it are selfish.

Nurses work incredibly hard, long shifts, difficult job. Carers provide absolutely essential service, again shift work, difficult hours, difficult job. Teachers provide essential work, I know multiple teachers and they all devote evenings, weekends, school holidays to the detriment of their own families. All of these jobs also have huge emotional tolls. So 'I've worked hard for my money' means nothing to me, because a lot of people work a lot harder for a lot less.

That’s not what white privilege is. You’re being deliberately obtuse.

Very good points. More flexibility needed from full time jobs. My DH works long hours, is often on call, and sometimes has to travel (often at short notice). No children (yet) currently, but it would highly likely be me who would have to reduce hours.

I suspect the wife usually did do all those things before she became pregnant. I would be the higher earner in our household if I wasn’t the one that carried our babies. I certainly came into our marriage the ‘stinger candidate’.

Wishing you a happy and long retirement.

Shall we ask? @PrawnsForDinner ?

We would be far better off if we moved to Portugal on a D7 retirement visa because we'd only pay 10% tax, and have to pay health insurance costs on top. What we'd spend locally would make us valuable contributors. We won't go because I don't want to deal with health emergencies in my 3rd or 4th language.

@PeonyPatch @Crikeyalmighty yeah - it's really hard for families esp I think for mothers. I mentioned this upthread as well - like, for a lot of women, earnings/ career stall a fair bit once you have babies. So family income is kind of capped - at least for a good few years - at what your DH can earn. Which is fine for me, because my DH has a good job. But shit for my SIL, because my DB - despite working as hard as anyone ever could, from he was about 14 - is probably at the limit of what he can earn. And she's now doing the job that works around his work and the childcare options they have.

Well said and exactly what this post is.

I'm not being obtuse at all. I'm not a victim of the "evil white person". Actually go look and see who does the best in UK society.

White privilege exists, to my original point it exists in the UK despite the fact white people are the majority against your warped interpretation of privilege. It sounds like you’re not actually the high earner so your opinion as to what privilege in the work place actually looks like is pretty moot.

To give her the benefit of the doubt i think she's just lived a very sheltered life and genuinely has no idea about white privilege etc. Though I don't think it shows great character that she's totally unwilling to engage with you about it

Could I very politely ask what constitutes "white" privilege to you? I am white and as there are almost no POC in my area (it's rural SW and more than 98% white) there's not much to compare. The only Asian person I know at all locally is the senior pharmacist in our health centre, and they almost certainly earn at least twice the local average, if not closer to 3x, so white privilege would seem to be wide of the mark. The pharmacist is a genuinely lovely person BTW.

I show evidence that Asian Indians do better in their educational outcomes. Asian Indians do better in incomes and on wealth. Yet they ignore it.

I've not had a sheltered life at all. When I was racially abused it was by another minority ethnicity.

If anyone is actually genuinely interested in learning about the concept of white privilege I can recommend Why I'm No Longer Talking to White People About Race by Reni Eddo-Lodge or Me and White Supremacy by Layla Saad

That’s a real issue… the cap in earnings, that “ceiling” and it’s hard - especially when the prices are constantly going up but your salary isn’t. I think that’s where a lot of resentment comes from. Very hard to balance this with supporting a family. I think the free childcare should apply to a higher threshold. Especially in the SE of the UK.

The concept of white privilege is a pretty well accepted thing that has been widely studied across different academic fields. Your personal experience doesn't change whether it exists or not. Yes Asian children tend to do better at GCSE. It's a complex concept though so that doesn't 'disprove' it.

With all due respect you are older than me, I can’t believe I would need to educate you on white privilege unless you’ve lived in a hole all your life. I say that as someone who is white and from a very rural upbringing myself. If you need to learn more, there’s a whole world available to you in your phone. I only used white privilege as an example because that poster didn’t believe in privilege being for a majority group, we should all also know how real misogyny is in the work place as well and women make up half the population. In my own workplace the biggest form of privilege I witness is class based.

What a lot of shit about white privilage.
The vast majority of white people are from poor working class backgrounds.

Miners who had whole families living in one maybe two rooms in a tied property.
Mill workers in tennent buildings with shared toilets.

That sort of thing was completely normal. There were houses in Glasgow still sharing toilets as late as the 1990s.

State education has only been a thing for 150 years, 5 generations, prior to that kids started work as soon as they could.
Chimney sweeps put kids up chimneys, mills had kids crawling around under the looms.

White privilage my arse

Maybe White privilege is more prevalent in certain areas or industries though? My DH works in the media industry and I think it’s very “white”

Whereas Indian Asian are more likely to be seen in healthcare roles.

What has that got to do with the workplace which is what this thread is about. Women outperform men right through school and yet we have a gender pay gap.

What percentage of C-suite roles are held by Asian Indians? The same proportion as there are in the general population?

I agree free childcare should have a higher threshold. The problem though is that the industry is already struggling, nurseries struggle to make money, there aren't enough places and there are huge waiting lists. So they could only increase the threshold if there were a plan to properly support the industry to create those funded places.

I think it a problem, but not as pronounced/ dominant as it’s made out to be. In very upper levels of Management at the places I have worked (banking) there is about as much race representation as there is for women. So yes, dominated by white men - but other areas of diversity just as problematic.
At other levels I haven’t seen a significant issue regarding race diversity in initial employment or progression. Where I do see a significant lack of diversity is from a socio economic perspective. But I do think that’s improving too, with more of a focus on the right person, rather than the ‘right university’ for example - less of a focus on employing grads.

@Papyrophile - what @PrawnsForDinner has said actually does more or less indicate what white privilege is, I think. The very fact that educational outcomes and incomes can be predicted along ethnicity lines indicates that certain ethnicities have certain forms of privilege over others - even if it's just the privilege of growing up in a culture that values education. (The only other explanation is the despicably racist idea that some ethnicities are more intelligent/ deserving than others - which I assume you don't believe).

White privilege comes in where, for example, your local pharmacist will have encountered assumptions about - maybe - her ability to speak English, or her family life, or the specific aptitudes she has - that a white person won't. Like the assumption that women aren't assertive enough to be CEOs is a form of sexism which impacts female CEOs, there are assumptions made about ethnic minorities that aren't made about white people, and those assumptions can create barriers to progress through, e.g. unconscious bias at interviews - a known, studied, established issue for people with 'ethnic minority' sounding names getting shortlisted in certain sectors.

If I’m talking bullshit how do you explain the disproportionate amount of white people in very senior roles? Why do you think there was a push for EDI in the workplace?

Yes, I agree with you. I wonder how other countries support that industry. It would be interesting what they do in terms of childcare. Seems to be a big issue in the UK.

I had a neighbour who put their child in with a local childminder instead of nursery as it was more cost effective. Think the lady trained as a child minder for similar childcare issues.