Resentment at 100k

[Arseholeneighbours]

Theres a lot of vitriol spilt towards people being “high earners” at 100k and over. As net contributors, and most likely having made sacrifices, stresses and difficult life decisions, there’s many judgements about life choices , expectations and living within one’s means. What is the motivation to push forward in a career and to try and be as successful as one can if there’s no personal gain? It’s all well and good saying those with the broadest shoulders should take on the most - but to what end?

You’re doing well op. Political rhetoric and policy doesn’t help ik, which also gets picked up with people going on about tax them more and selfish. You can only block it out if you can.

Plenty of people, myself and DH included, have made those same "sacrifices", which some would call choices.
He's also an engineer with a lot of responsibility who works hard and who I've only seen at weekends this month because he's worked away. He also earns less than 3/4 of your salary. His motivation for applying for promotions and progressing is that he enjoys the challenge and the responsibility that comes with it. He'd also be the first to admit that his sister on minimum wage as a carer working 12 hour shifts has probably equal responsibility. Difference is she's working those shifts to survive. Her sacrifice is barely seeing her child as she and her partner have to work opposite shifts as getting childcare to cover 12 hour shifts is nigh on impossible if you can't afford a nanny.
Before you ask we do have a child and not only that, we live in Wales where free childcare doesn't kick in until 3. As you're talking about being on maternity leave and needing childcare, I'm presuming, unless you are very unlucky, that you have an earning partner? So yes, my sympathy for you not having free childcare is minimal.

Also, your flippant “can you leave the south east” just shows utter cluelessness about how most people live. Housing might be cheaper elsewhere but that’s about it. Sainsbury’s don’t have London prices and northern prices. You pay the same for bills and council tax, actually often more in the North. Maybe restaurants are a little cheaper but not really, as many are chains with fixed prices. So yeah there will be plenty of people on 40k and no they aren’t getting universal credit like everybody thinks they are.

Is it ?

I know plenty of Engineers who have gone part time, or freelance.

And the more specialist their field, the easier it is for them.

A programmer for example. Great at doing PLC to PC interfaces, data collecting , bespoke HMI stuff.

Another, a stress engineer, superb at doing FEA, analyzing specific components etc.

Both went part time/freelance. And it suited the company. Because there was not always the projects that matched their specific skills. So better to pay for that skill. even at a higher rate, than pay them to tred water.

CAD jockeys are more limited of course, but again, the folk right at the top of that tree, I know some that went part time. Worked more on the system admin side.

I always find it depressing when I look at my p60 each year and see the tax and NI take, which is huge. The sense at the moment is that the tax take will only move in one direction. This is not a Labour government that will say okay we have taxed enough there is more to come. Dismal growth means that any future desire to spend more will mean even higher taxes. There is also a sense in which I feel there is limited protection for me and my family. Yes I benefit from schools and roads and other spending, but if I burn out, then my protection will be down to my savings and any insurance products I have purchased. There is no safety net for me. I am doing okay, but I do not feel very wealthy.

I could have but chose a different career, which I’m not complaining about as I find it rewarding. Not sure why you think that’s the point, you seem to believe we live in a meritocracy and that salary correlates to job difficulty and/or worthiness, when it really doesn’t.

I do think doctors should be recompensed for long hours and high responsibilities, I don’t think nurses working similar hours and also responsible for people’s lives should need benefits to make ends meet. I really really don’t think people (or people whose husbands) work in finance or corporate law should then complain that they have to ‘subsidise’ those nurses and others who are in work but can’t afford gouging rents and childcare.

Of course I do, but your hypothetical scenario doesn't exist.

H is on over 100
He has been lucky and works long hours
But he’s at a desk at home or in the office, warm, safe, coffee on tap.

What they pay him for is in his head, he has to be able to do what they want, there are risks and stresses but he’s a big boy now and knows his responsibilities and what can and just as importantly cannot be done.

Yes sometimes he works until sunrise but he’s not running into burning buildings either.

But then he also doesn’t main about tax or childcare vouchers. Well he pretend moans about tax - I point out he’s in a pretty good place if losing his PA is all he’s got.

That's called communism. "We pretend to work, they pretend to pay us". I saw it in action in the USSR before the iron curtain fell.

When everyone is rewarded the same no matter how hard they try, nobody tries any more.

Bit depressing for you that you think ambition to make money is the only form of ambition. I have a lot of friends in the third sector or in research or healthcare who are very driven and intelligent people, but climbing tax brackets isn’t what motivates them. Improving society, developing new ideas or helping people recover from illness is.

I haven’t RTFT so this may well have already been said but I’m seeing a lot of high earning people whinge at the moment.

As a high earner, you have choice. You can downsize, move to a less desirable area etc and immediately have more disposable income to support a different lifestyle.

I think the issue is that £100k used to be enough to have it all: childcare, a beautiful big house and a lifestyle that enabled annual holidays abroad etc. That isn’t the case anymore, but it doesn’t mean that high earners have to struggle, they just have to prioritise what is important to them.

I’m also tired of seeing people referring to their hard earned money as though low earners don’t work as hard. I work just as hard as my closest friends, the only difference is I spent 7 years at university and in training to qualify as a solicitor, while they didn’t go to university. This wasn’t “a sacrifice”. They were working hard while I was writing some essays and binge drinking. The “hard work” that I do just pays better than the “hard work” that they do.

How is what your husband does relevant?

And when income inequality has skyrocketed since the economy crashed because everything has been turned into a money grab for the rich? Don’t actually think anyone on the thread has advocated communism, there is something in the middle you know

No I don’t think that at all, and some of my work is world first research. However I do still question whether the work is worth the time I give up with my family

IMHO, the world of work (and society at large) needs to shift to the expectation that parents (including fathers) look after their children more than professional child-carers. Work-life balance.

If all parents, especially of young children, worked part-time, and had parental leave for school holidays etc, there wouldn’t be such a ‘career’ disadvantage in taking it. Some of the traditionally male professions (like engineering) need to move into the 21st century and accept fathers are equally responsible for taking care of their children.

IMHO it’s really sad to have children and then work such long hours you barely see them. What are all the long hours for? The most precious thing for a child is their parents’ time.

No, it goes like this:
low income household = under 30k
middle income = 30k-200k
high income =200k +

source: squeezed middle income earners on mumsnet

Yes the 100k “target” has not moved with the times but is still used as a benchmark for fiscal drag

I’m classed as a high earner too - though not in the six figure category. Mix of basic and commission. I pay the high income child benefit charge every year.

I think I just feel really fed up at the moment. I read a news story yesterday about a family over the moon about the child benefit cap being lifted and they are now on the equivalent of a £41k salary. There’s literally no motivation for them to EVER get a job is there? What message is this telling their children? Have loads of kids and stay home and someone else will fund it all. Great.

£41k is the same as my basic salary. It’s more than a lot of working people’s salaries. It’s more than pensioners who have worked their entire lives paying into the system.

Why on earth is this even allowed and guess who’s pocket all this additional money will be coming from. It’s just not fair.

99% of the complaining on salaries of £100k+ i see is because of the combination of loss of childcare and personal allowance.

I earn £0 between £100-150k after tax and benefits, with two in nursery.

That is obviously absurd.

This. I'm a high earner (not 100k but top 10%), husband earns 100k. I have definitely worked harder in the past, now I'm being rewarded for experience, not effort. It's not others' fault that when they're experienced (and you can be experienced at anything) they aren't rewarded.

What I will say is that although I think it's generally BS for high earners to stress about money, I also understand it.

I earned 35k when I bought my house, as did my husband. We were fairly chilled and easygoing then about money. Now with a child, we're probably spending less on lifestyle (childcare is 150-250 per month, and we were definitely more likely to spend more childfree!) and putting more in savings etc for our son.

What I think would be helpful for people on lower incomes to understand is that if you've come up from a lower income to a higher one, you have the same aversion to loss and risk as anyone on a lower income does. It doesn't change your psychology towards money.

That's why you have clueless people on six figure salaries who can fritter it away as easily as someone on 25k with credit card debt. And you can have someone on six figures who's just as keen to save 20% of their salary as they were when they earned 12k.

We're all human, and should treat each other as such.

exactly, but everyone seems to think this is fine

Why does your response assume I don't know that? Why do some people on MN have to be so damned confrontational instead of engaging in discussion?

The "something in the middle" is not between minimum wage and £100k a year, because there has to be aspiration or humans don't work very well as a whole, our human nature is fundamentally competitive. (Before anyone tries you tell me women aren't, just watch women's behaviour around child achievements. )

The something in the middle is out of reach until global capitalism collapses, which could be on its way and that might be a very good thing for people and the planet, in the long term.

There shouldn't be any tax cliffs, everything should be tapered. The high income child benefit charge has plagued me for 10 years... I am always in the taper band, so have to faff around with tax returns every year, and every time I get a tiny pay rise the take home difference is meaningless - demotivating. I'm glad labour extended the threshold but I had just got to the point that I would be almost giving up CB (near 60K) and now I'm at the bottom of the taper band again and will be doing tax returns probably until both kids are 18 (another 10 years). The system isn't well designed if it PAYE can't cope with CB-induced taxes. It's ridiculous so many people have had to do tax returns for that sole reason for so long and it hasn't been sorted yet and brought into PAYE.

This will be because the mode salary is actually around £15,000. When the most common salary is far beneath a full time minimum wage salary there’s a problem.

A full time salary of £15000 would be illegal, what stats are you looking at?