I got fired today!!

[Amiunemployable]

I started a new job on 1st September.

I was given an offer of employment letter when I started but never received a contract.

Today I was fired. Apparently I've had too much time off and failed my probation.

They've said I've had eleven days off. By my tally it's six days. Not eleven. Two were caused by migraines with aura which I've never had before and my GP reckons it was highly likely to have been caused by my office lighting as the migraines only started after I got the job. And since i stopped using the overhead office lights, (i sourced my own alternative) I've been migraine free.

I know it's still a high amount to have had off but I recieved PIP for a disability that does unfortunately mean it's difficult for me sometimes to get to work. But I've done my best.

Have I got a leg to stand on here? I never received a contract. Was never informed of a probation period. To then be told I'd failed a probation period that I didn't know existed? I signed nothing that mentioned probation.

I wasn't offered an extension to the probation period or a improvement plan, etc. Just straight dismissal, with no prior warning, for failing a probation period I didn't know existed. And also told I've had 11 days off and I don't think it's been that many.

My workplace do I am emergency services and work part time my non working days can be included

My workplace do I am emergency services and work part time my non working days can be included

Even if you'd worked there for over 2 years and so entitled to fair treatment at work ( we have David Cameron to thank for that) that level.of absence would trigger something in most workplaces.

I worked in an employment law related role as a consultant for many years and was always struck by how horrendously unfair it was that genuine illness is questioned and can result in a warning. One place a guy had just had a written warning because after 3 weeks in intensive care he came back to work and got flu a few months later. The whole disciplinary process was triggered and if he had another day off sick in the next 6 months he would be at risk of losing his job.

Anyhow, in future you need to be prepared/ manage the risks better. That's what employers expect of you, so particularly with the period pain you need to really push your doctor to try various solutions. Even if they don't work evidencing your efforts helps.

I don’t think anyone is doing that. The law is the law, and it’s there to protect vulnerable employees from unfair treatment, and to ensure they have any special needs met in order for them to do the job. But they have to meet certain terms and conditions to qualify for that protection - it’s a question of rights and responsibilities, and both employer and employee need to play their part. In this case OP doesn’t have a case, as her disability wasn’t declared, and her absences weren’t due to that disability anyway.

I've actually sent two emails over the past week just seeking clarification on those, and both emails have been ignored.

I sent them a list of the 6 days and disputed the eleven and asked them to just clarify where they got 11 from but no response to both emails.

I mean do I not have a case here? I was dismissed for eleven days of absence yet I can evidence only 6. And they aren't responding to requests to clarify.

Surely it's unfair dismissal if the reason they've given is incorrect/false?

I'm not saying 6 isn't a lot and if they'd dismissed me for 6 then fair enough. But they've said 11 and this is completely false. So surely I've been dismissed under false grounds purely because they've said 11?

Put in a subject access request under GDPR to find out the information. They have a certain number of days to reply. I think this is 28. If they fail to respond you can report them to the information commissioner’s office.

As I mentioned before you can go to ACAS. Early conciliation you decide the outcome for so it could be just clarifying which days they think you had off that you don’t think you did. Or you can choose something more than that.

They’re probably not replying so that you time out.

I agree that you do need to clarify OP, but as you say six days in three months would be enough to let you go. With under two years service they can pretty much let you go for any reason, and you have no recourse to unfair dismissal proceedings unless you have protected characteristics.

You have a disability and can declare it at any time - right up to notice of dismissal - but the problem here seems to be that the absences weren’t directly related to that disability, so the protected characteristics don’t apply.

Time out of what? Op had less than two years service, so can be dismissed without them even needing to state a reason.
No tribunal will take her case on, because the company don’t have a case to answer.

Is it true you can dismiss without providing a reason?

What about providing a false reason?

This. Many posters don’t seem to recognise that protected characteristics are not conferred for every disability - there are rules and regulations and they have to be met in order to be eligible. OP isn’t covered whether or not she declares her disability because her absences were not down to that disability. And there are no details to confirm whether her condition would have met the definition of disability under the EA20.

Yes. Unless you have protected characteristics which give you rights from day one, within the first two years you can be sacked without them even giving a reason. You have a health condition, but you haven’t given much detail about it, so there’s no guarantee that it would meet the definition of a disability under the Equality Act, and you haven’t declared it to the employer. At this point unfortunately it does look as though you have no case - even if you declared your health condition now and it met the definition of disability, your absences were not directly due to it, so you would have no protection.

What is your disability OP?

It's true that employers don't need to give a reason for terminating any employment <2years except that if there's any possibility that the reason could be discriminatory, there is protection against that. So if eg someone who has been working somewhere for 14 months informs their employer that she is pregnant and is then sacked soon after, the company needs an absolutely watertight case that the sacking wasn't linked to the pregnancy (eg emails with management discussing potential sacking between themselves, dated before the pregnancy announcement).

This is unlikely to help you because your absence wasn't really due to disability - or perhaps some instances were related to a disability that you didn't disclose so didn't give the employer's a chance to accommodate. It would be difficult to show discrimination in your case.

This is to help businesses to have the confidence to create jobs and recruit. If allowing someone to start work grants them immediate protection then you are going to be extremely cautious about letting anyone start because you have no proof that this person will actually bring a beneficial impact to the business. With the 2 year rule, a new employee has plenty of time to demonstrate that they are an asset to the company and are worth their pay. Recruiting is expensive, companies don't generally sack competent employees who are achieving the goals for their role but they are allowed to deal with it quickly and easily if they accidentally recruit someone who isn't going to be able to achieve what the role needs to achieve. It's impossible to be 100% sure just on the basis of a CV and interview, but in the vast majority of cases a new employee will show that their recruitment wasn't a mistake well within the first year.

Yes you do sound vaguely unemployable, just on the basis that you are absent from work frequently. Maybe you need to seek the kind of job that suits your disability, part time, no bright lighting etc, would it be best to be self-employed?

If an employer is following ACAS' best practice they should provide a reason. The reason your former employer gave you was that they found your level of sick leave unacceptable - this wasn't "false" even if it seems like they may have the number of days wrong because this was their reason. (And to be fair, three days absence per month for the first two months would still be too many for most employers.)
The problem you have with fewer than two years' continuous service is that you have limited legal rights and in order to bring a claim to ET, you need to have legal grounds on which your claim is based. The limited rights you have from day one of employment are:

• Protection against discrimination
• Entitlement to notice periods (statutory or contractual)
• Protection from automatic unfair dismissal (e.g. for whistleblowing, pregnancy, etc.)

It's already been discussed at length on this thread that your absence was not related to your disability (and furthermore you didn't notify your employer of your disability for them to consider) so you can't use the first ground.
Your employer gave you the required notice so, as long as they pay you PILON and any accrued annual leave in your final payslip, you cannot use the second ground.
You have not been dismissed for a reason that is automatically unfair so you cannot use the third ground.
In summary OP, you have no legal grounds to bring a claim to ET.

Wow!!! Finally had an email response. The cheeky Liars!!!!

My boss said to me when he fired me that I'd failed probation due to my sickness record and that I'd had 11 days off so was being given a weeks notice.

In the email he just sent to me
He's attached a redundancy letter and said that I was never dismissed, never failed probation, and none of it was related to my sickness record. It was simply a redundancy!

What a liar!!!

He's also said in the email, there was no probation period. So i didnt fail it. My sickness wasn't taken into account and that this is just an organisational redundancy. And he also confirmed that yes it was 6 days absence but not relevant as it wasn't related to absence or performance. But redundancy.

Sorry for shit typing but I just can't believe the lies!

Basically, the numpty recruited a load of people during a busy period but once a specific issue was dealt with it was no longer busy and we didn't have the work in. So clearly regretted employing 4 new people.

did you get redundancy pay?

No but I'll be paid a weeks notice and any holiday entitlement at the end of December that's when the next lot of wages are done.

When applying for another job, being able to say you left your last employment because you were made redundant, looks better than being sacked.

What he said may not have been a complete lie- the time off may have been a factor between you not being kept on. There us often a criteria being followed and performance, sickness, timekeeping etc could all be factors on the list, used to score everyone. The tine off may have gone against you if others hadn't taken any time off sick.

An employee has to have at least two years' continuous service to receive statutory redundancy pay and I doubt contractual redundancy would be paid by any employer for service shorter than this either.

@Amiunemployable Giving the reason as redundancy is a heck of a lot better than being dismissed because of your sickness absence when you have to tell any prospective new employer why you left your last one after just two months. I'd count this as a win if I were you OP.

I actually think you have more grounds for constructive dismissal in this situation… if the paperwork has said you have been dismissed for redundancy reasons and they haven’t followed any process including some basic consultation. I would suggest you get legal advice, but you probably wouldn’t get much more pay/compensation than what is already being offered!

be pleased you are no longer working for them, they sound terrible