I got fired today!!

[Amiunemployable]

I started a new job on 1st September.

I was given an offer of employment letter when I started but never received a contract.

Today I was fired. Apparently I've had too much time off and failed my probation.

They've said I've had eleven days off. By my tally it's six days. Not eleven. Two were caused by migraines with aura which I've never had before and my GP reckons it was highly likely to have been caused by my office lighting as the migraines only started after I got the job. And since i stopped using the overhead office lights, (i sourced my own alternative) I've been migraine free.

I know it's still a high amount to have had off but I recieved PIP for a disability that does unfortunately mean it's difficult for me sometimes to get to work. But I've done my best.

Have I got a leg to stand on here? I never received a contract. Was never informed of a probation period. To then be told I'd failed a probation period that I didn't know existed? I signed nothing that mentioned probation.

I wasn't offered an extension to the probation period or a improvement plan, etc. Just straight dismissal, with no prior warning, for failing a probation period I didn't know existed. And also told I've had 11 days off and I don't think it's been that many.

YABU. Employment under 2 years, they can fire you without cause provided it is not related to a protected characteristic. The probation time not being outlined to you would not have changed the outcome of your absences not the fact they can dismiss you runout cause within the first 2 years. They have done you a service by telling you why so you will be more aware in the future.

yes, you have had too much time off sick and they realise that this could be an ongoing issue. Did you really think this much time off right as you were hired would not have consequences?

it does not matter that you didn’t have a written contract other than your offer letter. Statutory rules will apply. This is tough to deal with right in the run up the the holidays as many places will pause their hiring process.

if you have not had migraines before, lease read up on triggers. Sometimes it can also be a combination of things. You can also get medication from the pharmacist to take as soon as you notice a migraine coming on. This helps very much. Strongly suggest you get these and keep them on you. Cutting out caffeine and sugar can also help.

I’m not quiet no. But you’re very rude. If OP had been dismissed for reasons connected to a declared disability, she would have had protected characteristics allowing her to apply for a tribunal hearing no matter how long she had been employed - the two year rule doesn’t apply and the protection would have been there from day one - ultimately the tribunal service make the decision as to the legality of the claim and whether she has a case to take forward.

In OP’s case she didn’t declare the disability and at least some of the absence wasn’t directly connected to it. OP now says some of it was, but it’s doubtful because it seemed to be due to new symptoms brought on by the lighting - which OP still didn’t declare but sorted it out herself. If the employer wasn’t aware of the disability then OP couldn’t expect reasonable adjustment - declaring is a grey area because in some cases there is evidence to suggest the employer could reasonably have suspected a disability as the root cause of repeated absence, regardless of whether it was declared or not, and should have enquired as to whether the employee needed support. Again, this is taken into consideration and decided on by the tribunal service.

How am I rude?
I didn't say she couldn't claim etc. I said I doubt the full story was declared in the original post and I was correct. I'm still not confident we know all the information.
You're the one who was rude by basically implying I am not an HR manager. What information have I said that is incorrect??

Rosscameasdoody · Today 18:42

UniversalCreditBitch · Today 18:39
Also u can claim under 2 years if treated unfavourably due to protected characteristic.
I want to know full info before saying yes or no. My gut is this person was told in some way and wasn't unfairly dismissed. Just because someone is disabled doesn't mean they can have all the sick days they want. "I do my best to get to work?" Sorry but no, not good enough.
If you’re an HR manager I’m the Duchess of Kent !!

Waiting... again...

I have a feeling info is being left out here and we aren't being told full story

So do I, @UniversalCreditBitch

In particular, OP's description of how this has been handled doesn't appear to chime with previous comments about how flexible her manager is, even allowing her to take her DS into work

It would be illuminating to hear the employer's comments on all this, but if course that's not possible

I think they removed the possibility of you becoming more unreliable. In 12 weeks you say you had six days off that isn't a good track record. I get aura migraines I'd probably just sit and let it disappear. Any way you are better finding another job.

Wow that’s so many days off in such a short time, that’ll be why they are getting rid of you. Hopefully the next job you get you be able to stop the time off sick.

My opinion? Only tell employer diagnosed disabilities. Speak about reasonable adjustments etc but you must play your part. Why did you replace office light? Who told you that would be best?
I think they did communicate a probation too. Or are you saying you were told is was permanent from the get go?

You don’t need a diagnosis to be considered disabled. It isn’t the condition itself that’s taken into account, it’s the effect on everyday life, and as long as the condition mets the definition of disability under the EA2010 you are considered disabled and have protected characteristics.

From your own post However,you can't bring to a tribunal due to under 24months service.

And Proving you were treated unfairly due to disability can be difficult to prove but not impossible.

If OP had protected characteristics due to disability and her absences were due to that disability, then she could have declared her condition to her employer right up to the point where they attempted to fire her for sickness absence. Disclosing her disability at that stage would have triggered the employers duties under the EA2010 and they likely would have had to extend the probation as a reasonable adjustment to allow OP to improve - the terms and conditions of the probation would have to have been made clear to her at that point, if they weren’t before.

Had they failed to mitigate at the point of declaration she would have had grounds to apply to the tribunal service, regardless of the length of service because of protected characteristics conferred through disability. The tribunal service itself decides whether an applicant has legal grounds to take a case forward, not the applicant themselves.

All of these are moot points, because it’s clear that she had excessive absence, not all of which could be attributed to her disability, as stipulated under the Act. So whether or not she was clear on the terms of probation is irrelevant - and l actually agree with you that we’re not being told the whole story here. If there was a probation period, she would have been aware of the standard expected of her.

She didn’t declare it and her stated reasons for sick leave seem not to be connected to her disability.

From the employers point of view, op had 11 days absence, plus was late into work several times. Op disputes the 11 days (was only six? ) but possibly the other days were due to childcare responsibilities, or if she was very late into work, maybe they marked her as half day absence.

I’ve clarified this and other points several times now - the post you quoted is from three days ago. A disabled person can declare a disability at any point during their employment - even during disciplinary procedures or on threat of dismissal providing the condition meets the definition of disability under the Equality Act and the issue at hand can be attributed to that disability - either directly or indirectly.

Had OP’s absences been attributable to her disability, she could have declared it when threatened with dismissal and that would have triggered the employers’ responsibilities under the Act - the likely outcome would have been an extension of the probationary period, along with a clarification of the employers’ expectations, as reasonable adjustment in order to allow time for her to improve,. The employer would also have had to clarify if any other reasonable measures were necessary to allow her to do the job. It seems that OP’s absences weren’t all disability connected, so it’s a moot point.

More likely that she had absences covering a weekend - if she was absent Friday and Monday they would have counted the weekend in between. You also have to be very careful about self certified sick leave. If your absence includes a Friday and you intend to return to work on the following Monday, then you should declare your first day fit as Saturday, otherwise, again, the weekend will be counted. Doesn’t take long for the absences to rack up.

I e never ever seen a workplace do that unless weekend is a working day.
]it is more likely she’s just lost track.

An employer can count a weekend as sick even if you don't normally work it, when calculating the length of a sickness period. For SSP, a period of sickness is defined as four or more consecutive days, which includes weekends, bank holidays, and other non-working days. That’s why when you fill in a self certified sickness form if your sickness period includes Friday and you intend to return to work on the Monday you should put your first day fit as Saturday. I worked in the employment field and saw this happen a lot - especially in public services.

Worked in the NHS for 30y and agree. HR do not want hassle or tribunals so shit staff stay around, claiming grievances and accusing others of bullying whilst everyone runs around them doing their work. And patients suffer. It’s astounding.

Really? It's very common, I'd say normal. I've posted twice upthread exactly how it works and can't be arsed again.

@Rosscameasdoody is correct, if you return on the Monday and don't want the weekend counted as sick, make sure you put Saturday as your Fit for Work date on your self-cert.

Yes. If work pattern is Mon-Fri and sick day are Fri and Mon then the actual days sick are 4 inc the weekend. It’s pretty standard to count weekend as previous posters have said

For future info, old fashioned fluoro strip lights can certainly induce headaches. I'm amazed there are any still in existence.

and FYI (just because I've sat down and worked it out)

I had 5 days sick leave. 1 day emergency parental leave. 6 days off in total over 4 separate occasions. Not 11.

1st instance was viral illness doing the rounds at work place. 1 day.

2nd instance was d&v bug that hit my entire household. 1 day.

3rd instance was for the migraines. 2 days.

4th instance was severe period cramps. (I have cystic ovaries and suspected endo.) 1 day.

Then 1 day emergency parental leave.

None was over a weekend period.

But none were connected to your disability ?

That’s very unfortunate in such a short period. But you’re posting like we said it was 11 days, we didn’t, it was your employer. We’ve no idea which if you is right,

I didn't say they were?

What I said was that my disability makes getting sick/ill worse. I'm not trying to claim unfair dismissal due to my disability and never once said that was the case.

Sorry! There was speculation up thread that I was wrong and maybe I had had the 11 days like my employer said, etc. Or that it was over a weekend so weekend days were counted. So I was just clarifying that having worked it out - it was definitely not 11 days as they said. And none over weekends.