If you're really fed up of all "your" money going to benefits ....

[Yesimmoaningaboutbenefits]

We really need to be campaigning for more council homes. One of the biggest payouts is housing benefit because of the extortionate private rent costs.

That single mum topping up with UC to bring her to over 100k? (supposedly) Wouldn't happen if her rent wasn't >£2000pcm for a 1 bed flat.

Build a 3 bed house for £300,000 (presumably less with large contracts). Charge £500 rent, they'd make the money back in 50 years even without increases. And houses last more than 50 years!

I know I've read several comments over the years from people saying this. RTB was the worst etc. So why hasn't it happened? Upfront cost. It would cost the government a hell of a lot upfront, despite the astronomical gain further down the line. But if they're not in power when the gains start to show, they get none of the glory. And that's what it boils down to. Elected governments only want something they can boast about within their term. Who cares if it benefits the country in the long run? If it doesn't benefit them short term, it doesn't matter.

Same with education. Better funding will result in more people in work, out of poverty and out of crime in 20 years time. It's the best use of money possible! But no.

SEN funding. Early intervention can prevent children getting to crisis point and keep the gap from widening so they have a chance of staying in school, getting qualifications and contributing to society in the future. Not funding SEN effectively is pretty much cutting off a section of society and forcing them to spend their lives on benefits. Funding could give them a chance. But no.

How many health conditions could be improved by early treatment so people don't end up out of work and incapacitated on benefits?

You've got to spend money to make money...

But suggesting things like spending on say education just isn't going to work. Schools in lowest income areas have the teachers and materials necessary. Its the environment of the family and their surrounding social issues that predicts poor outcomes. Money helps.

Agree on that and on state run childcare. The fact it is private business is insane

So you own seven properties in addition to your main home.

You're hardly struggling. And your money is not hard earned. You are benefiting from housing price rises and your ability to provide deposit and play the mortgage market.

And I wonder how many of your tenants claim housing benefit so taxpayers money goes directly to you.

Those with the broadest shoulders should pay tax proportionally for us to have a decent society. Otherwise you want to keep your money while nearly half a million children live in poverty.

We no longer have a social contract as it's all about individuals "keeping" their "hard earned" money, rather than paying to support the population to have decent lives.

So a family with three or four kids that could afford it then have a parent die suddenly of cancer and have to claim benefits. What do they do with the third child that they can no longer afford? Starve it? Kill it? Palm it off on a relative?

We are all a job loss/death/accident away from relying on benefits. We should be a decent society that cares about families and children in poverty.

That’s not what I said. People can fall on hard times for many reasons. But responsible planning helps, things like avoiding unnecessary debt, saving, having insurance, and not having more children than you can realistically support.

Working families make tough choices every day. Many would like more children but stop at one or two because that’s what they can afford. Choosing to have a larger family while knowing you’ll need ongoing financial top-ups is irresponsible.

The 10 million working age people on benefits don’t come from families with 4 kids who earned a six figure salary and then a parent suddenly died. Most people having 4 kids can’t afford them, are taking from their system even before you factor in benefits.

Your argument is regurgitated soundbites without any mathematical understanding of fiscal reality.

That's all very well, but once the children exist, what do you expect to happen to them?

Live in shanty towns? Turn to crime? There are other ways of doing things, but are they better?

Based on your £300k estimate to build a council house, the government would have to borrow around £226bn, plus interest. National debt is currently 2.9tn, so your house building program would add almost 10% to our national debt. Currently paying for HB accounts for less than 1% of our national debt. Not sure where the government is going to borrow 10% more of our national debt from.

Personally i think a universal basic income for everyone.

Then if you wanna top it up with work it's up to the person.

The people who just wanna stay on the income can stay on that amount.

Anyone who wants to earn more can do so without the UBI being affected.

And anyone who wants to donate or not claim theirs is free to do so.

Right now we've just the Government paying for every little thing.

Some people are so acopic they can't even do basics for themselve- they are so used to being wrapped in cotton wool.

This 👏

The problem with the current system.is - some people have absolutely no motivation to work or try and improve their and their family's future outcomes.

Any work they do will result in their benefits being cut and their lifestyle worsening.

I expect the government to invest in sure start programmes, early years childcare and education. Not to give cash handouts that may or may not benefit the children.

So, to all the benefit-bashers on this thread, have you considered the alternatives?

Here is a not so comprehensive lists:

• Generational poverty
• Increased homelessness
• Buildings showing visible signs of decay, since occupants do not have the money for maintenace
• Increased number of i-pad kids
• Increased healthcare costs, as people delay seeking medical help
• Increased hopelessness
• Increased crimes and scams
• Increased drug and alcohol abuse
• A harshening of society and more violence in the streets

That's how it was before benefits and that is how it will be again if it's everyone for themselves.

Provide initiatives within schools and whatnot. Free wraparound so parents can work. Free breakfast and lunch.

What we actually have is taking money from middle earners and their families (if they can afford children), and giving it to people who refuse to family plan properly and decide they will have a large family even though they can’t afford to.

The worst thing about the removal of the cap is that it isn’t lifting millions out of poverty, of whatever they’re claiming.

Giving irresponsible feckless parents more money is not taking kids out of poverty.

No different when you give a load or irresponsible people free money.

If I was claiming a benefit I would keep my head down and my mouth shut in case my working neighbours found out. Removing the cap is going to generate even more hatred and resentment from working people - especially against anyone whom they perceive as "not from" this country. This has played into the hands of Reform.

So what do you think should be done with these kids that "shouldn't exist"?

Put them to sleep? Forcibly remove them and put them into care?

Or do what we do now which is leave them in poverty and pay all the extra costs associated with that - poorer education, poorer health - and then moan about how much that's costing.

Eh?

I come from a country where we pay more tax. We are used it to but guess what things just work better. Of course there are problems anywhere. I don’t mind paying more if I knew it would actually make things better or make things work.

What I abhor is the idea that we continue to throw good money after bad. We pay more into the NHS (and we need it) but things aren’t better. Nurses and doctors aren’t paid better (relatively).

This country is a leaking bucket and the givernment continue to think that pouring more water in the top will keep the bucket full and there is very little to fix the leaks.

Anyone who has had experience of the NHS can point out the waste and inefficiency. But it’s still broken.

I resent the welfare state. I’m not talking topping up for those who aren’t earning enough but are working full time - we need cleaners, admin staff etc in large cities. I resent generational unemployment because it can be ‘better’ to be unemployed. How are there towns in the UK where over half the population is on benefits?

I understand that people need support but you can only tax the same middle people over and over until it becomes enough.

Considering what my family and I get and what I see in our society we are taxed enough relatively. Enough is enough until government actually fixes things rather than continuing to throw good money after bad.

My kod said the other day

Why doesn't the Government just Give everyone a million pounds then they'd be OK.

I told within a few weeks there would be some homeless without a penny and others who now multiples of millions.

I don't think that makes sense.

Is your argument that anyone who becomes pregnant accidentally and doesn't have an abortion is too feckless to be able to look after their children?

With regards to your post

'Other people's taxes' pay for lots of things though, including pensions for lots of people who don't need them.

Who are these people who don't need pensions?

Who are the people who are getting pensions without making any NI contributions or payments into a personal pension?

I’m not talking topping up for those who aren’t earning enough but are working full time - we need cleaners, admin staff etc in large cities.

I think that is a problem with wages, not benefits.

How are there towns in the UK where over half the population is on benefits?

I can't think of another European country where wealth is so disproportionately concentrated in the Capital. What is it like in the country where you come from?

That sounds like a bit of blackmail to me.

Pay up or else all those who don't get their benefits will cause chaos. Why should they do that? Why wouldn't they get work and help themselves along or make use of the free education, health care and contraceptives that are on offer.

Many people, and there are probably a good few on this thread, were brought up in households with very little money-before these crazy amounts of benefits were a thing-and many of them-instead of turning to crime, forged a life for themselves.

If there is an underclass whom, as you seem to be suggesting, must have their benefits or else their children will become the scourge of society, then the the thing to do is threaten them with lawful punishments not pay them to behave.