To think we need to stop treating depressed people as the only ones whose feelings matter in a friendship?

[StormAndStillness]

When someone ghosts, drops out of plans with no notice or cuts friends off completely during a depressive episode, the narrative often becomes “you should be more understanding/you don’t know what they are going through/don’t take it personally.” But I think that’s quite polarising. The person who’s struggling deserves compassion, yes, but that doesn’t mean the friends they disappeared on don’t get to feel hurt, confused, rejected or upset.

People forget that friends may also be dealing with illness, bereavement, job loss, divorce or their own quiet mental health battles. Just because they aren’t formally diagnosed doesn’t mean those struggles aren’t real.

AIBU to think both sides of the dynamic matter and it’s unfair to expect one set of feelings to completely disappear just because the other person is depressed?

I'm a bit sceptical as to whether people actually do make allowances for and excuse the behaviour of people who have mental health problems or suffer depression.
I know that these days that is technically supposed to happen.
But I suspect the majority of people still see those suffering with depression as a nuisance and don't really have much empathy or understanding at all. And I say this as someone who has and does suffer from depression

But yes I agree that very many people are experiencing very real difficulties in their daily lives and we should all try to be a bit more sympathetic and understanding of other people's problems.

Except nobody expects that for a moment, other than a minority of Mners who appear to often harbour a mild dislike of their ‘friends’ and so get enmeshed in status wrangles about whose feelings matter more.

I think that you can be compassionate and understanding of friends who have mental health issues while still maintaining healthy boundaries about exactly what behaviour you are prepared to accept and in what circumstances.

So I might understand why you are behaving badly and be broadly sympathetic without allowing you to continue to treat me badly.

It can be a bit of a balancing act, but in the end of the day you don’t have to set yourself on fire to keep other people warm.

I agree with you OP. I have anxiety and depression and sometimes I have to check myself that im not expecting dh to always bend to my will to avoid upsetting me if that makes sense? I don’t deliberately do that but I think he tries to minimise things that ‘trigger’ me and that’s not fair on him. Not always.

I have immense sympathy for those with mental health struggles - mine have ruined my life BUT it doesn’t give you free reign to not be a decent person and to be held accountable.

For a second I thought this was the same poster who's posted 3 thread recently on depressed friends ghosting them but my memory is terrible.....

I hold my hands up. I'm a shit friend..through the worst of my depressive episodes I do what I've always done, I isolate myself. Ironically actually in my mind as a way of protecting those I care about worrying about me, figure I can can just deal with it myself and not stress then out.

Turns out that isn't the case, certainly not with most NT people. They do understandably expect contact and timely responses. Which is fair. I was a the friend who regularly flaked out at the last minute due to anxiety or depression. Eventually the invitations stopped coming. The messages dropped off. People drifted out of my life.

Do I regret it? Absolutely. Do I wish I'd been a better person and a better friend? Definitely. Did they deserve better? Wholeheartedly yes they did.

Bur I can't go back and change things. I'm sorry to those I lost in this. I'm sorry tho those I let down. It wasn't your fault, it was 100% mine. But I genuinely hope you're happy in life and realistically you're better off without me and my flakiness, my drama and an my mood swings.

That said I do (surprisingly) have friends. I have a vest feied who for the past 20 years has been here through thick and thin. Who does understand me, who gets why I am the way I am. With her it doesn't matter if we last talked 2 days ago or 2 months ago we instantly pick up where we left off (though we both have diagnosed ADHD which may be relevant). And whilst I would never expect everyone to be like that I guess the reason we are still such close friends is that ultimately she does understand me as a person and accepts me 100% the way I am. (Flaws and all)

I wouldn't be annoyed at a friend who cancelled plans last minute I've been there myself spent all morning preparing myself and trying really hard to not be able to do it in the end. I would be annoyed at a friend who didn't send a quick msg to let me know

Sometimes it can be used as an excuse for poor behavior. Went out for a friend's birthday recently ,meal in a restaurant, one of the other guests got up to go to the loo and never came back.

Oh shes got problems.....

Yeah, a problem being polite and considerate i'd say.

For a second I thought this was the same poster who's posted 3 thread recently on depressed friends ghosting them but my memory is terrible.....

I thought the same @KitTea3 and had to check the date.

This is a TAAT, yes? If you’re that bothered about being ghosted OP, why not say something to your friend?

No, it’s not a TAAT. I’m talking about the dynamic in general. I’ve seen it come up on here a lot, where anyone who expresses hurt is told they’re lacking empathy. I’m asking whether people think both sets of feelings can matter at the same time, not trying to get advice about a specific person.

On all the other threads, there were quite a few people who thought both sets of feelings can matter.

I dunno... I think it's everyone's responsibility to manage their own emotions.
That involves managing your own hurt if someone withdraws a bit from you.
We can't control what other people do but we can control our reactions to it. And if you know because you've clearly been told, that someone struggles with depression and that will be why they have gone quiet on you.. then I do think you have a responsibility to not make their situation worse by putting the pressures of your own emotions on to them.
It's OK ti feel whatever you feel and maybe discuss it with other close friends.. but I don't think it's ok to put that onto the friends it's directly about. Because what's the point? What will it achieve? You can't cure someone's depression by making them feel shit about it. And you won't make yourself feel any better because it will push your friend away even more...
So really I'm not sure it's healthy to indulge that reaction.

Even if its not due to depression as well I think people have a right to withdraw from friendship and we should respect that.
I think it's a bit unhealthy the amount of expectation and entitlement some people have regarding friendship. Some of it seems either transactional or deeply insecure.
Fir whatever reason sometimes people drift off into their own worlds and can't pay you the same amount of attention any more. That's life. They might come back, they might not.
Personally as a friend ill check in with people from time to time but if someone seems to want to pull away I'm not going to take that personally or get angry about it.

Have you ever experienced anxiety? Honestly this kind of complete lack of understanding is why lots of people who struggle with anxiety don't even bother trying to go anywhere. When they are just going to be judged as rude if it turns out they can't cope.
It's not like this person made a scene. They literally just suddenly left. Which people sometimes have to do.

These threads are so weird.

I mean, sure, be hurt and rejected and upset all you like, but what are you expecting to achieve with it?

You can decide not to be friends with them, or you can give them space and let them get in touch when they’re ready. Those are basically your options.

There’s not currently a friendship tribunal you can take your depressed friend to and have them disciplined for negligence.

You can’t call in to a friend agency and get a substitute to cover for your depressed friend, so that your texts never have to go unanswered and you always have someone to go for coffee with.

Do you want to feel free to give them a hard time about it? You wouldn’t be the first.

But it’s not like that’s going to whip them into shape and make them contrite and attentive again. They’re depressed - if they had capacity to be a good friend to you at the moment, presumably they would. But they don’t.

(Unless of course they are saying they’re depressed in the hope you’ll finally back off with your demands of them…? In which case maybe take the hint)

Chill.

Only your therapist or immediate family (and often not them either) can be expected to put your needs or wants over their own needs or wants. Such is life.

Depression is an illness, and the things you describe are a symptom of that illness. Some people do just vanish either because trying to maintain friendships is exhausting, and/or they feel like a burden and don't want to bother people. However, some do try their best and carry on, but are falling apart when alone. Depressed people often mask, and it is tiring.

Like a few others have said already, this thread seems very familiar.

I thought it was absolutely appalling, to not even then message the birthday person wjo was quite upset.

You've pretty much just demonstrated the point of this thread.

Um, may I please ask a quick question?
It's not 100% related to op, but also is.
It looks like about half the people responding here struggle with their mental health in particular depression...
And you've admitted that when you're having a depressive episode you isolate yourself and ghost the rest of the world and shut people off.

Can I ask, how long does this usually go on for? I'm not trying to change the subject here but I am grieving my partner who's ghosting / silent treatmenting me for many weeks now... And I suspect the problem is very much depression related but he refuses to speak to me. And I've never been through anything like this before and I have no idea how long to expect that he won't speak to me because I'm so concerned.

And I'm sorry OP, I don't mean to hijack your discussion. I just wondered if anyone here could answer my question since we were talking about this, because it really really hurts when you're trying to be so considerate of somebody else's mental health and they are not giving you any consideration at all and you're trying to be nice and you're trying to be understanding but you're hurting too. Which is related to your original post so I guess it's not that much off topic....

Yes me too. Depressed friend ghosted me is the topic of the moment.

I don’t actually ghost people when I am in an episode, it’s more that I don’t contact people as much. I think it’s mainly, in my case, that I suddenly don’t know what to talk about for some reason. I also find myself quieter at home.
It is definitely not the silent treatment as such, and I think if your partner won’t talk to you at all, there’s probably something more going on.

I posted on a thread yesterday which very much proclaimed in quite condescending terms that if your friend had cut you out of their life abruptly and you were perplexed and hurt by this then this was your own selfish attitude; you did not understand depression, had clearly never suffered from depression; if you dared think or expect you were worth more, forget it; if you felt you’d been poorly treated then clearly you had no compassion and should only think about your poor, poor depressed friend who was obviously in a dark place and your own feelings weren’t important.

Obviously that was a bit tongue in cheek but only a bit and it was interjected with people who have ghosted others being quite unintentionally ironic by saying things like ‘well, when I did get back in touch they weren’t bothered, so clearly we’re not my true friends.’

I do think there is a bit of a myth that true friendship can withstand no contact for years and tick on regardless. That might be true with a very strong shared past and experiences but otherwise people drift and that’s actually okay when it happens naturally. It’s sad in a way but life does move on. However, if you suddenly withdraw from contact with people, it is a big ask for them to suspend their own feelings for months and years until you feel better. People like to say ‘ah but if you had <physical illness> then …’ but truthfully there isn’t much difference. People do tire of others’ pain, is the blunt truth of it, not because people are intrinsically awful but because friendships should be fun and when they stop being fun they stop being friends.

I've never ghosted anyone but I do withdraw. I wasn't sure if you meant how long does depression last or how long does a depressive episode last. For me personally I have episodes where I shut myself of from the world and they last anywhere from a couple of weeks to a few months. Depression itself lasts forever but severe symptoms come and go.

I withdrew from a guy in our group when I was much younger. He was horrible to me when he was depressed, and whilst I understood that he was going through it, I wasn't prepared to be an emotional punching bag. So in that instance I would quite happily call myself a fair weather friend.

Sometimes depressed people are unfortunately surrounded by friends who are not really friends.

When depressed, they can't handle the feelings and expectations from these unhealthy relationships.

It's self protection when they've ran out of capacity.