To so desperately want deeper friendships

[Jellyrose20]

I have lots of friends. But most of them are superficial level friendship where we go out as a group or text on the group chat.
I have two very close friends but they don't have kids so it draws a line in between our lives. They are amazing and supportive of me and vice versa but there's a limit.
Ive tried really hard to make deeper connections by making effort to have play dates, nighrs with no kids and to oberal keep in touch with mum friends. However overall it feels incredibly one sided and I do feel that if I didn't message them to arrange to meet up we would never see each other. They always say yes to play dates when I arrange them though (they come to the play date too) so I reason they can't really dislike me, but I can't shake the feeling that they must as nobody wants to progress deeper friendship.
I really crave some close 1 on 1 or small group friendships with people going through life as I am right now.
What can I do?

And id give some vulnerability, whatever that is. I have a sen child and talk about that early on. Some are awkward or shy away, others get close.

This is good advice. It will weed out the people like me who don't want an engineered connection. I want friends who I can have a laugh with and chat to about problems as and when, and not have to provide mentally stimulating conversation on demand to fill a gap in someone else's life when I'm knackered from chasing a toddler.

Hi OP, so I would say a) it takes time b) in reality these friends and friendships come from all walks of life and I would say the way I found these friends - not to be cliched was to find myself first through some intense therapy. I was then able to stop the fawning, the people pleasing, I was able to stand prouder in myself , I could be more authentic my natural self, and now if I’m honest I’m batting off the offers cos I can see how I am a good friend but I have limited energy, I know what I was in people and I’ve become increasingly selective.

don’t be so available, hold yourself high, work on yourself first. Then it will happen.

I’ll be very frank your post in itself gave me the ick. It’s a bit desperate and off putting - don’t put these people on a pedestal. Honestly work on you.

Different people want different things from friendships. For some the mum friend is a casual daytime friend slotted in around home/ family etc.
The early years are a pretty busy time a lot of people prioritise their family and don’t have much to give beyond that.
I have three children, with my first I met a group of women and we grew (imo) really close seeing each other several times a week. I loved it as like you I was the only one with kids in my other friendship group. However when the kids hit around 3 years old some mums went back to work full time one moved away and the whole group just drifted apart. Some of them stayed friends on a 1:1 basis but the group was over. I was quite shocked.
With my second dd I made a group of three friends but it stayed fairly superficial as a group although I became close friends with one of the women.
With my third again a group of around 6 of us became friends but mostly WhatsApp chat and the occasional coffee/playgroup. I did realise with a few of them that only I made the effort so I stopped bothering. I’m still friends with 2 of them ten years on but tbh it’s still a fairly superficial friendship

Lots of people are incapable of deep friendships. I don’t mean they’re bad people, just shallow and insensitive. The sort of depth you are seeking is only possible with a limited number of people. First of all they must be capable of such depth, and second they must be on your wavelength.

The "deep" conversations you talk about occur in my friendship group organically.

For example, we will be talking about Strictly Come Dancing, who we like, who our favourite is, that type of thing.

Then La Vouix was mentiond and how sad it was that they were injured, which led to a conversation about Drag Queens. This led to a conversation about trans people.

Id think it a little odd if a friend started a conversation about trans people with no back story. It would sound to me like they were trying to push a particular point of view at me. And I think I'd try to shut that conversation down. But our conversation was organic. It arose from previous subjects.

Isn't that what conversations do?

I'd take any friend i could get. 38, 3 kids, married and 0 friends. No group chats, no meet ups, literally nothing, noone.

I’ve come to the conclusion not everyone wants to go deep. Some people are just surface dwellers.

Take one of my best friends who I have known over 35 years. Yet if I message checking in she’ll reply “I’m good thanks hope you’re well xxx” - which kind of ends the conversation!

She’s just not chatty on messages / deep

I too felt I needed something more. I have a fairly new friend (met her in 2022) and we now exchange longish voice notes a few times a week and touch on some pretty deep subjects. I’m hoping the friendship continues. We met through a hobby but actually I am no longer involved in that hobby, but might go back to it (life being a working mum is taking up all my time!) . This friend doesn’t have kids though.

I definitely have a vacancy for a good friend who has kids!

With regards to DC’s friends mums / school mums, be really specific who you click with. I’ve realised out of the 25 or so kids in my DC class there is only one mum I would be good friends with irrespective of the kids. So I’m targeting her a bit more, inviting her / her DC to stuff.

Do you have a partner op, and are you/ do you appear happy?
I ask because I only had this type of friendship with school/ nursery mums as a single parent or when I was going through the relationship problems and break up that led to me becoming a single parent. I’m not sure quite how the friendships developed but adverse experiences led to a close group of us, all single parents or with dodgy relationships, finding each other, having nights out and close friendships forming that lasted for a number of years before some of us slowly met new people and I moved away . I’m still in touch with 3 of them now and speak to most of the others on Facebook occasionally. Could it be that many parents with close nuclear families have their needs met within this or wider established family and friends so there isn’t much of a “market” for this kind of friendship locally? I doubt it’s anything to do with you personally, rather than others are getting any need for close relationships met elsewhere.

Do not give up op. I have the most incredible, soulful friends. It’s taken twenty years plus. I do have groups to socialise with, occasionally, but my priority lies with deeper friendships that can be playful AND be honest and genuine. Friends that love you and have your back.

You might ‘offend’ those that haven’t the capacity - there will be lots of reasons for that - but you can choose something else.

I’m the same OP I like meaningful connection and some friends and friendship groups feel superficial- one lot in particular just want a nice group photo for social media. I used to drink a lot with them but it’s just not my thing any more.
My best friend was great, we did loads together and I could tell her anything sadly she ghosted me after telling me something she really regretted- I would have pretended it was never said but there you go, it’s hard to let go of a solid friendship and makes others look a bit flat.

People on mumsnet are weirdly misogynistic and mean about "mum friends". I feel the same. I want more people locally to me I can go for a glass of wine with and not talk about the kids. Hoping once the small kid intensity stage is over some real friendships will emerge.

I think you are expecting a deep friendship too quickly. Two of my best friends were regular mum friends 25 years ago and over time and life happening we are best friends now.

I had a few years in the middle of my childhood living in another country.

It was more backwards then here, the women in the 80s didn't work, had large families and at that time were not seen as economic units.

As long as women are working there will be this longing in many.

Those women had each other and their large families, they had a larger pool of more available women to find friends.

It seems to me that superficial hedonistic women are quite content with the way the world now is.

I wish I had some advice, OP.

But you only need to glance at most MN threads to learn that there are scores of people out there who hate socialising, find other people suspect and untrustworthy as a category, can’t be themselves with anyone they’re not related to by blood, don’t leave the house unless they absolutely have to, and certainly don’t want anyone to visit them there.

The proper friends I made post-kids - who were interested in getting to know people properly - were either slightly older than me and child free, or non-British.

Most British mums I met seemed committed to spending every weekend and half term with their extended family, and/or friends they’d known since childhood.

I hear you so much. I had a best friend too of 10 years and she ghosted me and I don't know what I did. I haven't asked because I figured she'd have told me if she wanted to, but it was such an ideallic friendship for me it feels really hard to fill that gap. Thank you for sharing this as it has led to a big realisation for me.

Perhaps you're right. In fact I know youre right and I know that level of friendship so quickly probably isn't healthy. However what I really want is a sign that putting effort into a friend will turn into genuine friendship and I think im struggling to even find that sign from anyone.

It’s not helpful, but I think friendships deepen naturally and effortlessly - they find their level. There’s no point trying to fast track something that might not happen. I have 5 friends that I consider very close, the sort that mean the world to me and I could say absolutely anything to. But I also have at least 15 ‘good’ friends - I see them often, love their company, but they’re not people I’d bare my soul to.

I have a sister that’s always trying to find what has so far eluded her - a really close female friend. Unfortunately, she scares off any nascent friendships she has, perhaps by being too needy and a bit intense.

I totally get how you feel OP. I also crave that and it’s so so hard to find! I don’t know why! I also enjoy just the casual superficial friendships of lots of different people but I think life just isn’t as good if you don’t have a bestie! Luckily I made an awesome friend in the last 2 years. We chat every day, see each other 3 times a week or so (with kids mostly but also without). It’s hard though. Hang in there!!

100% this.

I have had to slow fade ‘friends’ who were just too emotionally draining, and I lost some friends when I was going through the shit show that was my early to mid 20s because I was too intense/broken to be good company. I learned that most people seek light-hearted socialising buddies in friends. When I became that kind of friend, my luck in making lasting friendships completely changed.

I do have a partner and yes we are very happy. I think you may have touched on something here and although my husband is fab, he's not a woman after all and female company and companionship is so different for me.

I 100% get you and what you mean.

I have lots of friends and a few deep ones. One is a mum with similar age child. She has recently relocated and I honestly feel heartbroken and dreading being back to square 1 with surface level mum friends only. I deeply miss the close proximity of our friendship.

So yep, totally get where your coming from and don't know the answer and we just 'clicked'

This.

And this is fine for you and people with this personality. But that's not me and not what I need and I don't think changing who I am is the right answer. To clarify when I say deep I don't mean emotional draining, broken, needy type friendship. Deep connection doesn't have to mean this.