To think having kids is now treated like a moral achievement rather than a personal choice?

[DeftQuail]

People act as if parenting gives them automatic wisdom or depth. AIBU to think the cult of motherhood has simply replaced the church?

There have always been arrogant, know-all parents. Just ignore.

Given more people than ever aren't having kids at all and many never planned to and many are happier to be more vocal about this - I'd have thought the opposite is true.

Though if you have no kids and are going round giving parenting advice based on theoretical kids - it's likely a reponse to that.

God know if you have kids there are pleanty of people with very different kids who will give unasked for advice as well - you tend to get bombarded with unasked for opinions with motherhood.

Nope haven't seen that. What i HAVE seen is loads of people who call children - you know, actual human beings - a 'lifestyle choice' though. Basically so.that they can use that as a atick to beat parents. Are you one if those people OP?

I’m not “beating” parents. I’m talking about the social narrative, not the children themselves. Of course having kids is a huge responsibility and a meaningful part of many people’s lives. My point is that culturally, parenthood is often treated as if it automatically makes someone wiser, more selfless or morally superior, and that dynamic is what I’m questioning, not the existence of children.

I think YABU but some people like to argue to take offence at anything possible, including those who have children.

Well, yes of course it does. I don't understand why you'd think otherwise when you're sacrificing your own self in favour of the wellbeing of your child. That's what parents do 🤷‍♀️ it's hard, but forces you to become less selfish and more mature.

Yes, I’d have said the same. I had my one child at almost 40, and I’m exactly the same person as before I had him. Just with a child.

It really doesn’t.

I’ve noticed that some parents of more than one often become really sanctimonious about parents who are one and done (either by choice or not) even when, in the majority of cases, they do a far better job at parenting in my opinion.

But it changes you completely and you obviously have different knowledge to what you did before. They are more knowledgeable about the changes they have gone through, obviously.

But it is a lifestyle choice, surely? Just as my decision not to have them is also a lifestyle choice.

I don't know anyone either with or without kids who shares this view, so no, not in my experience.

I have certainly not found it to be the case. I’m pretty much the same as I was when I was contentedly childfree. I’m delighted I had DS, who has been a lovely addition to my life, but motherhood hasn’t turned me into a different person.

So are you saying that those without children are selfish and immature?

This is another one of those provocative/confrontational threads started by a poster with a bird in their username. Is it AI?

Always AIBU.....to think. Always bilge.

The OP will put up the original provocative post, then, will come back with increasingly word soupy replies stirring the pot.

I can identify them now before I even open them.

You certainly get a different perspective, the same with all life experiences (though possibly towards the more extreme end of life experiences like living in a different culture or bereavement etc.).

Parenthood doesn't make people better (or worse), though.

Selfish/entitled people don't suddenly become nice - they just extend their selfishness and entitlement to include their kids, as extensions of them (or become abusive parents depending on the make of their arseholery!).

Looking after and prioritising your own children should be the basic standard and not any kind of moral achievement.

If you go deeper, it could be argued that doing good things for your own children is solipsistic or narcissistic, but I get told I'm bringing the the mood down and get asked to leave when I start discussing this at mum&baby sessions! 😂

Having kids is a lifestyle choice though, same as the number of kids anyone choose to have is a lifestyle choice. It's not an inevitability. What makes you object to that?

Maybe. If so, they’ve slimmed down from their previously three-word usernames.

I think that’s perfectly fair.

Surely having children IS a lifestyle choice?

I don't quite see it the same as you, but people suggesting they had children for the good of society (rather than because they wanted to) is v annoying.

Not engaging if this is just a random goady thread so please can you give some context for this view.

This may be a perception difference.

I have kids - my perception is the overiding narrative towards parents and parehood even on parenting sites like this is negative - and anything less than "ideal" - number/age/set up or even if life circustances change for worse then you can get attacked.

I think childless people feel attacked for not having or even wanting kids sometime by people asking outright but once you have them people still find endless fault and ask very personal questions- but they don't see that.

Parenthood does usually come with new challenges - and development of different skills - as any major life change does but as PP have said parents are still people who come in a wide range of flavours - selfish/insightfull and opposite.

I'n clearly going to take parenting advice -or juggling wider life with parenthood from actual parents - usually ones who have more relavant experience than I do. Someone who has or recently had teens is going to have more insight than someone with a new born baby to someone with teens- unless there was some additional experience like being a secondary teacher etc.

Our socities are set up for people to have kids and pay tax for society dependents both kids and old people - world wide fertlity rates are going rapidly down - doesn't suggest parenthood is seen more desireable state.

It’s not something I’ve noticed, but then I’m mostly far too busy counting my blessings that I don’t have children tbh. I’ll trade the moral high ground for my freedom and sanity any day!

This.i don't think people's personality changes that much. I certainly am the same person that I was before children