Middle earners punished

[Eucalyptus321]

I am feeling so disheartened and frustrated by how middle earners are constantly suffering at the hands of ridiculous government priorities. My husband and I have a greater household income than other families we know but have less cash in hand due to increased taxes coupled with the fact we receive zero benefits like child benefit or tax free childcare etc. ZERO. If they want middle earners to fund the country thought tax then at least support us with childcare costs. It’s a joke that two parents earning £99k each get childcare funding but parents with one £101k salary and one £25k salary receive nothing. I just need to speak to people who understand the burden of raising a family amidst the current financial climate and then the potential of further tax rises!

Fantastic isn’t it to hear of someone with aspiration contributing £40k to the public purse. I assume that’s what you were getting at?

That is not what the op has said

Haha perfect. You have no answer so retort to ‘that’s tough!’ Sigh….

You need to do the pension calculation. My partner earns just over £100k. We pay c£800pcm extra into pension (on top of 10% required contributions). BUT we save £1500 each month when you consider 2 children x 30 hour discount in nursery fees and tax free childcare. We actually have no more take home cash now than before he got his pay rise but the pension pot is growing. Stupid really as we don’t need extra pension but it’s the only way otherwise we’d be worse off than when he earned less. There really should be a taper for the childcare. We still pay over £2k pm for both kids to go.

Well it is tough isn’t it

How come you have no housing costs? Where I live in the outskirts of London, average rent for a bog standard 3 bed semi with a postage stamp garden is £2.5k, and average monthly nursery costs are around £1,800 per child.

A single mother with 2 pre-school kids on a £100k salary would not qualify for benefits but have a monthly take-home pay of roughly £6k (give or take). Once you’ve accounted for rent and nursery fees, that wipes out the take-home pay before bills and disposable income are accounted for. Most families working in London need 2 decent incomes or live outside of London and have a longer commute / live in tiny homes to just afford the cost of living. Many others have financial help from parents to get on the property ladder or substantial help with childcare.

The high salary doesn’t tell half the story.

haha, perfect! That’s actually made me really giggle.

I think you need to reread the post. Then read the thread. Then do some online reading into tax brackets, childcare costs, etc.

Why is this ok middle earners but not ok for a single mum to not work over a certain no of hours because it affects her UC. Its the same fucking principle The hypocrisy is stark

This.

No. I was getting at the fact the person is complaining of being poor and having to fund others when they earn about 5 times the UK average.

This is the issue. People argue for self sufficiency. But there doesn’t lead to a functional society. Otherwise there’s rich people and slums and not much in between. If you all want to fight ypyr way back to the Victorian era then go for it. I would be middle class then ask middle class now

It shouldn’t be OK for either to reduce earnings to get access to benefits. But I can understand why both do. At least the higher earner is paying more tax.

It’s the system that’s wrong.

Lies 🤣🤣 tell us where your expensive area is?

90k wouldn’t even be worth anything in the part of London that I’m in. So I really wonder where this ‘expensive’ area is?

100%

YANBU Op, you clearly acknowledged how it’s also difficult for the other side but also feeling frustrated with your situation.
We are in the same situation. The fertility rates are apparently getting lower and I’m sure this is also a contributing factor.

The system subsidises wages when companies should be paying more.

The problem is not the government paying out and individuals acting in their own economic interests, it's companies not paying decent wages.

Remember also that those refusing pay rises or more hours are not on £100k a year like the OP's family. They are on low levels of income and wish they could go on holiday once a year.

It's not comparing apples with apples. It's complaining that being in the top 10% of earners doesn't get you freebies. As it should be.

Only in this country

Exactly.

Isn't it 30 hours they expect you to work now if you have a child aged 3+?

I’m delighted! You’ve certainly made me guffaw

Erm because the higher earner will be huge amounts of tax? They are receiving £0 benefits. If they are receiving subsidised hours it allows them to go to work, thus paying more tax.
There are studies showing subsidised hours is a policy that has a net positive financial impact due to tax receipts.
In the other example, a person is choosing not to work thereby costing the tax payer in increased UC payments.
it’s apples and pears, really.

I think it has always been the way that young families carry the heaviest financial load as they usually have mortgages or high rent particularly if they live in London or the South East where the highest salaries tend to be and have young children so expensive childcare. Families like us who are early retired with decent pensions and no mortgage and childcare have lower incomes but probably higher disposable income. We try to balance the system by subsidising our daughters who have young families but I do not suppose everyone can do that or should have to.

Like the NHS and the education system I think the tax system probably needs to be reconfigured too. Rather than free childcare hours which seems to have effectively reduced childcare options as they probably haven't costed it right I think they should look at tax allowances particularly if families only have one income. That might address the situation for middle to higher earners. It is all very well saying if you have kids you have to expect to pay when the birth rate is dropping and we will have massive problems if it drops any further by the time the current younger generation become taxpayers. There is also the ridiculous situation of someone earning over £100k on paye paying 50% tax on the marginal rate whereas company directors are paying a lot less on their dividends (salary by another word). Also these vanity projects which are ineffective, expensive and never come to fruition HS2 for example should be managed by outside contractors and penalised for going over budget and time as government departments do not seem to know what they are doing. Yes I think the benefits system also needs looking at as there is a disincentive for people to do more hours due to the cliff edge over which benefits drop off. We also need to look at these huge companies paying little tax and low salaries to employees who then have them topped up by UC.

I very much doubt that Reeves will do anything rather than tinker round the edges as this is what most chancellors do. Seek headlines in the media but do very little to help out those who need it. I do wonder if we should be giving higher rate tax relief on pensions or keep the ISA limit at £20k and I think she is looking at both of those things.

Not sure what the answer is as for every £3 we take in tax we pay out £1 in debt interest on our government debt so we cannot keep on borrowing.

I would ask is the father contributing to his children’s upbringing?

If we paid that level of tax the money wouldn't be spent on those services. It would be spent on bailing out banks, paying for wars and posturing on the world stage and a million other things.

I remember Jeremy Corbyn explicitly saying back in 2017/2019 that he's increase income tax on those earning £80k+. I hated and still hate him so so much.

No I am saying that people earning over 75k are in loud cuckoo land if they think the tax payer to subsidise their life style.

I get they pay tax to subsidise others but if you continue that argumenr - millionaires would be getting universal credit and paid child care. They pay tax too.

That is not to say that I am happy that my taxes go to pay for other peoples lifestyles and children ^ live wihtin you means is what I was taught bar a mortgage and I have lived by that philosophy. As a single mum, minimal maintenance and earning just over the threshold it pisses me off but I can afford what I need to without whinding that my houshold income is 100k and more and feel hard done by.