To conclude there must be many thousands of people on the roads who have not passed the driving test.

[redange]

I cannot believe the appalling standard of driving i see every day. To 'Legally' pass a driving test today requires a higher standard of competency than 35 years ago. In order to pass today requires an awareness of Hazard perception, correct use of Gears (if in a Manual) understanding of speed and distance and before that a difficult theory test. Therefore, how is it possible that the standard of driving is infinitely worse. The only conclusion can be that many thousands of people are driving illegally and dangerously on the highways of the United Kingdom.

My DD and I were in an Uber the other day, attempting to get across London. The driver was v v slow; fair enough, I thought, he’s just being careful. DD then texted me - ‘look what he’s doing with his phone!!!’. I peered round the headrest to see he was watching various YouTube videos, flicking between open tabs on his phone, which was in a cradle thing.
Yes, I did report him to Uber, no idea if they did anything.

So you are basically saying most drivers who took a test a few decades ago are poor drivers? Well let’s just have a look at statistics…yes newer drivers are up to six times more likely to be involved in accidents, though that is due to their youth as mature (over 35) new drivers are not
I would argue that while the theory test is far harder than when I took my test 40 years ago, the on the road test is marginally harder. But the experience I have from 40 years on the road (without accident) I am more competent than anyone taking a test now or in the last five years.
I do think a driving test should be required for those over 72 - not as extensive as the first test but to test reaction speed etc.
Passing the test does not mean they are good drivers. It means they can drive. Experienced drivers are the safest, whether they took a test or not, passed first time or fifth time.

I do think a fit to drive test at a certain point is a good idea. Over 70 you have to renew every three years, perhaps that should come with a mandatory medical?

Over 70 the range of fitness, competence, medical complications and confidence is going to differ wildly. Starting fit to drive at 72-75 and / or with certain diagnosis or medications perhaps would make sense.

Well the thing is, all the people who passed their tests 35 years ago (and even 50 and in some cases 60 years ago), when the tests were much easier, are still on the roads.

Added to that, the longer ago your driving test, the more things you forget, bad habits get ingrained, you start to misremember myths as rules...

I was talking to some older family members the other day (in their 60s) and they were saying they weren't taught how to navigate a large multi-lane roundabout, nor how to deal with cyclists on the roads. I suddenly realised why both of those things have always been such a cause of stress to them, when I was specifically taught and practiced both of those things.

Absolutely agree

They introduced testing for older drivers in Denmark and it had no impact on road safety apparently. This was from a study in 2012. I couldn’t find anything more up to date.

I think there is a big difference between how older and younger drivers use the roads which will play a part. My older relatives who are still driving in their 70s and 80s are aware of their age and potential limitations and drive very cautiously and very locally.

on the other end of the spectrum younger drivers often drive further, later in the day and with distractions.

Nobody uses the indicator. Nobody. I’ve noticed a big decline in the last few years. I’m not perfect and I’ll wave an apology when I make a mistake which is usually in an unknown area.

Very glad that now (unless it’s raining) I can walk to work!

I'm learning to drive and I swear to God I can already drive better than some of the nutters who have passed their test

My friend’s husband was a traffic cop based in Camden for decades. He estimated that as many as one in ten were driving without a licence and one in 8 without the correct insurance. He said most were foreign nationals, mainly Africans.

I live in West Yorkshire and driving standards are terrible. When I lived in Bradford neighbours in three families I knew of let their sons (not the daughters!) drive from the age of about 14. So obviously no licence, not insured. Leeds Road in Bradford is the Wild West of driving!

My local town IS a hazard perception test. The standard of driving is hideously bad.

its definitely getting worse

got cut up by the same car twice in less than a minute she was oblivious

Their drug of choice is nitrous oxide. Inhaling this gas and then driving like a maniac is a popular pastime amongst a section of our young folk. Unlike other recreational drugs, nitrous oxide is not detectable in police roadside drug tests, which is a factor in its current popularity.

I am glad we don't have to do retests, because i went to pieces with nerves with an examiner sat next to me, but I do actually think we should. Perhaps not a full test (especially not before they've sorted out the backlog of tests and difficulties in actually being able to book them withjn a reasonable time,) - but a friend in Germany had a stroke, and he had to do a hazard perception test on a driving simulator before he was allowed to drive again - something like that would be useful. Also, compulsory eye sight tests.

I had to do a motorway awareness course about a year ago, which was interesting and useful- they should be available even if you haven't been caught on a motorway. And how many people read the Highway Code once they've passed their test, to keep up with changes?

I think it's no different from other tests - my first test was 2 days after my last A-level, and I wouldn't pass those if I were to take them today, not without a lot of study. I do actually practice driving more, though.

But that would only account for a handful of poor drivers, and I think the issues with unlicensed drivers and those who didn't take their tests here are a big issue.

(I was driving home from work today, and I thought more people were indicating round roundabouts than I would have expected. I go round 7 roundabouts on my way home.)

The general standard of driving these days does seem to be appalling. So much worse than when I first started driving in the 90s. I now drive assuming that everyone is about to do something ridiculous, dangerous or erratic, because there’s a good chance they will.

Agree with you. The standard of driving from so many people is appalling, that coupled with many cars not being fitted with indicators, is just inconsiderate, and at times dangerous.

Also, doesn't help that I've seen driving instructors not bothering to buy cars that have indicators fitted either.

we have your word for it.

I think there are a few issues.

My dad, despite being in his 80s is generally a good driver. I don't have a car at the moment so last time he visited he drove me to a local shop I wanted to go to.

We were on the ring road and my dad kept going in to the left lane, the left lanes all peel off so you have to be in the right hand lane to get round the ring road.

So sometimes an unfamiliar road layout can be to blame.

Foreign drivers. You can drive in the UK for a year on a foreign licence. There are designated countries that have agreements with the UK so that you can just exchange your licence for a British one.

One of the countries is Hong Kong. Someone I worked with had a Malaysian licence, now you can't exchange that licence for a UK one, but you can exchange it in Hong Kong to get a HK licence.

Then you can exchange the Hong Kong licence for a UK one.

I was in the back of a cab a while ago. I was giving the driver directions that included quite a narrow lane. There is just about enough width to pass and there are passing spaces. He panicked, I said stop the car and let the other driver past, so he pulled up on the right hand side.

Perhaps we should bring in the graduated licence for new drivers especially those under 21 or even 25.
The other group of bad drivers are parents on school runs the cars are too big for the roads they have to park at the school gate and often fly off to take their precious darlings to the after school activities.
I try and avoid going out let alone driving between 3 and 4.
Plus youngish men in their sports cars (?footballers) too much money and don't care and accumulate points but don't lose their licence.
Oh yes drugs

This is why I believe road-rage killers should be granted immunity from prosecution provided they have the offending incident on dashcam.

If we gradually eradicate all the oblivious halfwits, those who should be nowhere near a road but invariably drive massive wankpanzers to make sure it's someone else who dies when they cause a crash and not themselves, then over time the roads should return back to a far more calm, courteous, and ordered state.

Two of my young adult DC are learning to drive and one has passed. To pass was around £3k with lessons, tests and additional insurance on my insurance (£800/yr).

When I see those stories of someone who has killed people in a RTA I check the fine. It’s always less than it costs to pass the test and insure yourself. They do get a driving ban too which is a joke.

Agree with PP. Law enforcement is too focused on the easy pickings. I paid my fine for going 24MPH in a 20 in the middle of the night when roads were empty.

Why bother to be law abiding in the UK?

Bring on the self-driving cars.

I've stopped being offended at the 'oh, it's all the old people'. Sweeping generalisations are the retreat of the ignorant.

In my 60s I've been driving for more than 40 years, drive a lot for my job, have 25 years no claims and a squeaky clean licence (cars, bikes and minibuses). And my eyes tested every year.

Today I saw someone zigzag around a closing level crossing. What could possibly be so urgent that it compelled them to risk arguing with a 300 tonne intercity? 😳

For your own safety and that of your family !

I think this is definitely one contributing factor in the Wild, Wild West (Midlands).

Five of the top 10 places for uninsured drivers are here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3rjexqpz1lo