If my tenant has negotiated a lower rent because she is a single mum of 2 she should not move in her entire extended family?

[QuintessentialShadows]

She negotiated her rent down, as she was just her and her two kids. Ideal quiet tenant, long term let.

So, a whole gang of people surprised my dh at the house when he went to London to have a final look prior to tenant moving in.

My other neighbour down the road got talking to them ( same ethnicity) and they said they were ALL moving in. Mum and her two children, her husband, her brother, her mum and her dad.... Only mum is named on the contract and the contract stays that nobody else can live there aside from named tenant.

Where do I stand? Can I demand higher rent bearing in mind wear and tear of appliances etc? With three working grown ups living there, surely they can afford it?

So dont landlords have any rights? Are all the laws weighted on the side of the tenant.

I have to say it wouldnt surprise me - hubby is self employed and when we have any problems all the protection seems to be for the client rather than him.

QS you seem very resigned to this...OK maybe she will move in and everything will be OK but are you SURE foxtons have done everything they should have? are you sure there is no protection for you - I often find I am told I have to do things but once I know my rights and threaten the person involved with whatever body governs them then generally the story changes!

Hmm I know what agent I will NEVER be using if I become a landlord!!

All is not lost: she (they) could turn out to be ok tenants, even though you reduced the rent and are miffed because of that. It could turn out to be not a disaster but just rather annoying.

You just need to make sure you are protected so that when/if you give notice for breach of contract, your requirements are actual IN the contract and there's no fiddling about with "enjoying the property" or whatever that nonsense is all about.

No landlords don't have many rights. Because of those awful landlords in the seventies who exploited and abused tenants. But the pendulum has swung rather.

But I don't think potential damage to the property is the issue here, oranges. Any tenant could do that. This is about the number of people who are seemingly likely (in that the tenant has told the neighbours so) to be living in the house, when original woman has negotiated a rent reduction and signed to say that there will only be 1 adult and 2 children. Granted, 7 people will lead to additional wear and tear on the house, which is a concern. But if QS had wanted to let her 2 bed house (? is that right?) to a large number of adults, then she would have set the rent accordingly. I don't think anyone is suggesting that this woman is set to trash the place deliberately - or not any more than any tenant might.

I guessed that was the reason why these laws existed but surely there are STILL some awful landlords out there.

Pretty much the same with the situation with hubby the cowboy contractors give the rest a bad name, the laws come in and we have no protection when we get a cowboy client!

It seems, by using an agent it is impossible to be a horrible landlord, but nothign stopping you being a terrible tenant!

Plus, there are websites that advise things like: don't pay your last month's rent as the deposit covers it and there's no way you'll be pursued for damage. That kind of thing.

When we moved into our rented accommodation we had to pay a depost plus 2 months in advance that way the last two months we didnt pay rent and still wanted our deposit back...surely any decent agent uses that system? Otherwise anyone unscruplulous would do what stuffit says.

Probably a litlte late for you now, particularly as you are abroad, but when we let our house, I videoed the entire house the day the man came to do the inventory. I particularly concentrated the camera on the carpets but, even then, when we moved back in and there were many additional stains (they hadn't even attempted to have them cleaned) the same inventory man tried to make out they were there before. Also, when I queried the fact that he said the windows had clearly been professionally cleaned (there were kids' fingerprints all over them), he said that it was a gloomy day so he couldn't be expected to see them properly! FGS, what was the point? I paid for his services!!!

Oh dear QS...whatever the outcome of all this I really do hope it works out for you. I know you've had a tough time of late and I really wish you all the very best of luck with it all. xxxx

QS: what's your situation re: key handover? Is it just the agent?

Can anyone from your family, or a good friend, or even a lawyer, be there as well?

I still think it might not be totally ghastly even though you have been taken advantage of.

QS, despite your misgivings i'm sure your tenant will be fine. You're protecting yourself as much as you can by adding additional clauses into your contract. Its hard for you because you're not in the country but i'm sure your agents will do a good job, just keep an eye on them at the start. I think you need messages of positivity as opposed to negative ones (about your tenant). I think they will only add to any stress you may have about this situation.

And of course, IF the agent has alerted her to the fact that you have concerns about numbers, she may well change her mind. It could be that she didn't realise it was not allowed....???

I have spoken to the agent and they will not release the keys until the contractual issues are ironed out. The tenant has been made aware of these, and the agent should call me back later this afternoon.

To be honest, I dont think the agency are so horrid, the legal advice they and the solicitor has given has been pretty much the same. The agent suggested adding clauses to protect me, and they did not write the book on tenancy and contract law, they just have to follow the rules. We will just have to wait and see what happens now. The ball is in the tenants court.

That all sounds v v positive.

But I hope there's no danger that someone at the agency who doesn't know the story hands them over just because someone turns up at the office with a tenants' agreement?

I hope things go your way and I hope that doesn't mean losing the let.

By the way QS it's aubergine.

RIGHT
This is crunch time.
The agent rang. SHE is speaking urdu, so has no communication issues with the tenant.

This is the situation. The tenant is not married, she has two children. She has a boyfriend. He lives and works in a small town outside London, where she used to live. Her parents live in the same town. She has other family not far from my house, in the same area where she is starting a new job. Her family has come with her on all viewings, etc to help her find a good home. They are not moving in. But her mother will come and stay, now and then, maybe staying a week, or so, now and then. Her boyfriend will also come and stay over, especially at the weekends, but he is not going to live there. She thinks there has been a communication error with my neighbour and her family, as her family does not speak that good english. Her mum and dad lives in the town she is just now moving away from, as does her boyfriend. They will stay as occasional visitors.

She is happy to have both her mum and boyfriend at the contract, even if they are not going to live there. SHe is ok with the additional clauses. She says she may also sign a declaration that it is only her, her two sons, who will live there, but her mum and her boyfriend may come and stay on occasion. However, what is going to happen if she and her boyfriend is to get married during the next months, hypothetically, if he is not on the contract? She cant rule out marriage, but she wants to ensure that her new husband can stay

SO? Shall I include the new clauses, and put mum and boyfriend on the contract on the understanding that they are not going to live there? Or, shall I AVOID the new clauses, and get her to write a declaration about her mum and boyfriend coming to spend time but not live there.

If I do the latter, I think we can agree to renegotiate the terms of the contract for increased rent purposes with two adults living ther full time. I cant to this if I put him on the contract now, as then I agree to have him on the contract but at this rate of rent.

Opinions, quick. Please I have been on the school run and the agent is due to call me back...

Hmm... don't really see how their names ought to be on the contract if they're not going to be living there. And if they're on it, then officially they can live there. In which case, you'd need more rent. But if you leave it as it is, and have her write a declaration that they are not living there, then you're back to where you were at the start - just her and the 2 kids, which you were OK about. Although, it would be hard to find out how much time any one extra is sending there.
I might be being naive, but this explanation sounds plausible. What do others think?
Don't be pressured into answering today. Ask to sleep on it - say you've got MNers to consult!!

The second: I would get her to sign an affadavit -- with a clause that if they get married the rent is renegotiable upwards.

Really hoping for your sake that a lot of the confusion was due to misunderstanding.

What kind of contract do you have? Usually after a period of time either party has the right to give the other notice.

I would want to charge her the market rate for the rental of the property and not be bothered about who came to stay with her. I would protect myself by asking for a deposit that I felt would cover any damage, having an inventory carried out and asking for her to pay for the property to be professionally cleaned on leaving.

I think its dodgy that she tried to negotiate the rent down on the basis of being a single mum (do husbands really cause that much wear and tear?), but at the end of the day you always take a risk when you take on a tenant.

We found this book quite useful when we were landlords:

www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-Guide-Letting-Property-Buy/dp/074945220X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=12 13281649&sr=8-1

I too find her explanation plausible.

She was happy to have the additional names on the contract if this was the only way for her to have these two people come and stay overnight.

I dont want their names on the contract because this means I have agreed to three adults living their at the current rate of rent. I cannot then negotiate the rent upwards if he really does move in full time.

I only want adults actually living there on the contract.

I was discussing this with the agent (the lettings negotiator is female, and asian) and we agreed it really should not be necessary to name on the contract people who come to stay as guests, in fact, this is ridiculous in my opinion. I also think, that as a landlord, it is none of my business if her mum comes to stay a week or two, occasionally, or her boyfriend comes to stay the weekend.

The idea is that we can incoroporate in the contract that if her boyfriend should wish to move in with her, she notify me in writing and we can set up a new contract with his name on. I think this is most reasonable.

Excellent outcome, very very good decision. The Foxton's girl does sound up to speed on the whole thing which must boost your confidence. And you have your let, with protection. V pleased for you QS.

An aside to MadamePlatypus, that largely depend on the kind of husband you have.
Mine does.
Bicycles carelessly carried through the house, motorbikes rolling across the deck, diy projects.....

QS, I think I would take the risk, given the previous references (and you have checked that the agent who gave references is a real agent?).

I have also dealt with letting property through the marvellous Foxtons, and I think you will go through absolute hell with them if you tried to pull out now (real, real hell. Their starting point will be to charge you for 18 months full commission upfront and to get very legal on you instantly). Given her previous tenancy I think it maybe less stressful to see how it goes. As you have pointed out, she hasn't actually done anythign wrogn yet and I am not convinced your legal position is such a good one..