To think free birthing should be entirely banned

[StandFirm]

I have come across this article earlier which made me feel so very angry at the cynical extremists who brainwashed a mum into an entirely avoidable tragedy: https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2025/nov/22/free-birth-society-linked-to-babies-deaths-investigation
If I'd listened to similar cretins, I would have died in childbirth aged 19 and none of my three DCs would have been born alive or at the very least without severe disabilities. 'Pearls of wisdom' which gave me the rage include:
-ultrasounds are not safe
-women’s “bodies do not grow babies that we cannot birth”
Such ignorant perfidious lies. I hope the cult leader gets sent down for a very long time. That poor little child was robbed of a healthy body and many more actually died. I really hate the internet's ability to spawn dangerous cults entirely unchecked.

Hardly dangerous nonsense to say we are designed to give birth un assisted 🤣 it's a fact. Hundreds and thousands of women have given birth unassisted over the years. Hundreds of women conceal births and give birth in secret without any help.

I'm not saying I'd want to do it, I'd be too scared. And I'm not saying I think other people should either. But it isn't dangerous nonsense to say women can and have given birth naturally without assistance. It's a fact

But there isn’t a choice to wear a seatbelt or not, for example, even if you’re an adult. And in cases of poor mental health people can be committed against their will if they are considered a risk to themselves or others.

Do you think these practices should change?

I’ve got zero time for women who will prioritise their desire for an magical birth experience and need for kudos from their deluded mates above the delivery of a live and healthy child, as well as their own life.

I will side eye any woman who does this as it suggests a degree of narcissism.

Hospitals that can get so busy women in labour are turned away?
Where I am homebirths are encouraged and supported with a special midwife team that is trained and on call for that separate from those in hospital/birthing units.
It helps free up capacity for the women that need/want hospital births.

If anyone is curious why someone would consider a homebirth (I do disagree with free births) look up the scandal at Edinburgh Royal infirmary. Why would you feel safe someone even the care providers say that you aren't.
I gave birth there tje first time and if I'd listened to the triage midwives I would have had an accidental unattended birth as they did not believe I was in labour.

Well no because community midwives are doing their day to day jobs- running clinics and postnatal visits etc. They can’t also work in the hospital.

Honestly I don't get that logic. A bad hospital is potentially bad for you and the baby, yes, but you might stand a fighting chance of being treated if you get into trouble. There is zero chance for you at home without any medical professional with you.

Did you read the article????😲😲😲😲

Umm, maybe because a helpless infant is involved? And using your rather poor analogy, you wouldn’t think twice if you saw a woman rock climbing, trampolining or skiing…with a newborn strapped to her back?

You understand that there is no equivalence between seatbelt wearing (a non invasive event that makes vehicles safer for other road users and passengers) and having autonomy over your own body - the baby is still part of your own body or between sectioning an adult with poor mental health and a woman wanting autonomy over her own body? The argument that only a mad woman would not prioritise the baby is terrifying in its implications.

I think the pregnancy process needs a radical overhaul to stop women wanting to freebirth.

It's an absolute pisstake that I was put on the high-risk pathway, repeatedly tested for conditions I didn't have (GD), and yet they missed giving me preventative meds for pre-eclampsia, and ignored my repeated queries about precipitate labour which runs in the family.

One case of pre-eclampsia (2/3 of women who have pre-eclampsia die of heart disease) and one 90m labour later, I have to factor in "seriously incompetent health system" into whether I want another child.

The most useful information I got during my pregnancy was from my vet, her last appointment didn't turn up and she gave me the rundown on various processes etc.

Whereas my consultant bitched at the nurse for holding her up because "I want to go home".

No, the human race would not have become extinct. What it would have continued to experience is the huge loss of mothers and babies that have instead been saved by modern medical intervention.

Several of my friends survived pre-eclampsia. A century ago they would have died. My second was delivered by cs after monitoring showed a problem. If I’d refused and waited for nature to rake its course I would probably have had a dead baby judging from what needed to be done with the cord round his neck. At the least there would have been some drama instead of a calm, supportive cs.

We’re not exactly ‘designed to’ do anything because evolution isn’t quite the same as design, and also we have evolved to live in groups, and one of the things that involves is helping each other with childbirth, so arguably we have absolutely not evolved to give birth alone.

But it is dangerous nonsense to say that all will be well. You just cannot know for sure in advance. With my first, I was young, healthy, no medical conditions, average weight. And yet it went badly wrong and no one had foreseen that.
The free birth movement makes me feel deeply uncomfortable because there is almost a eugenics undercurrent to that way of thinking- like you have to pass unassisted birth as nature's test to be a proper woman and earn that way the right to pass on your genes.
Edited to say: not that that's what YOU are saying here, but that's the vibe I'm getting from free birthers.

That's the stupidest thing I've heard in a while.
So only if someone's pregnancy and birth (or other health care need I suppose) proceeds exactly as you believe is standard they should be entitled to care with the NHS and if you deviate a little bit and may need some adjustments in your care then you have to pay yourself.

Much like every other course of medical treatment at the moment.

I think free birthing should be banned, whilst women are free to choose the birth they want this type of birth is irresponsible, none of us know how easy or difficult any birth will be and there is always a possibility things can go wrong and women are vulnerable at that time, in pain and can be confused which means they aren’t always able to make rational decisions. To promote this type of birth is totally irresponsible. I am also if the opinion given my experience that midwives sometimes promote nonintervention against other advice which can potentially cause permanent damage to baby and mother. Of course we all want safe births with healthy mother and child and ideally without intervention but there are times when intervention is needed. The views that some voice caesarean births implying that they are aren’t a “real” birth is both dangerous and can make women who need those births feel they have failed which isn’t healthy.

Which is exactly why I disagree with freebirths where you have noedical professional present. I was responding to someone mentioned homebirths where you are attended by trained midwives who know when further help is needed.

That was a long and harrowing read.

Your thread title says you think free birth should be entirely banned but from your subsequent posts that is not your position. Rather, you think people irresponsibly advocating for free birth should be stopped/prosecuted - is that about right?

That's not true though. You have choices in your care in many many many areas.
Care providers will make recommendations but they don't force care on their patients. Sometimes the choices are limited or they don't have more than one option but this isn't one of those cases so you can't compare it to something where there is only one treatment option.

Absolutely not.

I think it's a terrible idea but it would be almost impossible to police and could also be a slippery slope into a fetus becoming more important than a woman's right to bodily autonomy.

I agree with this. The adult women are not just being reckless with their own life but that of a separate human being, the full term baby.

Someone (quite a few people actually) quite literally did say it was fine, bmi and age under 25, no health problems and previously giving birth with no problems was described in a way where nothing could go wrong.
Luckily for me I didn’t listen to such advice otherwise my baby may not have lived maybe we’d both have died as it wasn’t uncommon back in the day

Plus the people talking about “you can always transfer to hospital if something goes wrong “ as if everyone lives a two minute drive from a hospital

I think it would be more problematic long-term to ban them or make them illegal, but, yes, some of it's batshit. Ignorant people leading the blind.

It absolutely is true. If you don’t want to accept the care you’re offered you need to either go it alone, or go private.

Those providers were wrong in how they phrased it but the facts don't change because of that. Which is why the individual situation should always be taken fully into account if planning q homebirth.
Distance from hospital is an important factor to consider for example.