To think free birthing should be entirely banned

[StandFirm]

I have come across this article earlier which made me feel so very angry at the cynical extremists who brainwashed a mum into an entirely avoidable tragedy: https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2025/nov/22/free-birth-society-linked-to-babies-deaths-investigation
If I'd listened to similar cretins, I would have died in childbirth aged 19 and none of my three DCs would have been born alive or at the very least without severe disabilities. 'Pearls of wisdom' which gave me the rage include:
-ultrasounds are not safe
-women’s “bodies do not grow babies that we cannot birth”
Such ignorant perfidious lies. I hope the cult leader gets sent down for a very long time. That poor little child was robbed of a healthy body and many more actually died. I really hate the internet's ability to spawn dangerous cults entirely unchecked.

I'm not supporting either. Just saying they aren't comparable as a home birth is far safer.

What does this have to do with criminalising free birthing women?!

Maybe but mothers dying in childbirth was much more prevalent and babies dying too. Medical advances and monitoring in pregnancy has saved a lot of lives, including my own.

This ❤️ ❤️

No, I don't think it should be banned.
I do think there needs to be a crackdown on cults, although, I'm not sure how easy that would be. Without the culture aspect of this, I think the mother and others in the room would've been quicker to react, or perhaps the mum would have stayed in the hospital when advised.
I think what this really highlights, which is very relevant to medical professionals, is the importance of listening to the mother. The mother knew something was wrong and that assistance was needed to get him out.

It does sometimes though, you can’t ignore that.
I don’t know the figures but women used to die in childbirth a lot more than they do today.

The issue here isn’t the free birth, that can’t be banned.

The issue here is women not being given the information they need to assess their own personal risks. Sadly this happens in hospital as well as in the community. We often discuss the ‘dead baby’ argument. Women told their babies WILL die if they don’t follow a particular opinion but without any evidence or individualised information.

Also, just to add, possibly the biggest cause of death for mothers and babies before the NHS was infection (hard to be exact because of lack of record keeping / evidence). Hygiene and antibiotics have saved A LOT of lives.

Not listening to mothers is another problem, sadly. I remember being told off by a (woman) doctor for using too much gas and air during transition. Bet she'd never had a baby!

@StandFirmhow would you police it ?

Not the mothers, but the incompetent idiots who spread lies like the one who's made millions as an online guru. I would criminalise them the same way drug traffickers who push heroin to vulnerable users belong in jail.

Without medical intervention, I'd be dead in childbirth, both times and the pregnancy in between both births.

Pregnancy in humans is potentially dangerous.

We're not like cats: WTF has just fallen out of my rear end? I'b better lick it clean. Oh look, there's another one. Human brains are massive. The human birth canal is not. It's called labour for a reason. And it kills a lot of women. We'll not go extinct from maternal death rates, but I think its foolhardy to attempt to give birth without trained professionals, medicine and technology.

women’s “bodies do not grow babies that we cannot birth” - such pernicious bollocks.

Since humans stood up on 2 legs pelvic outlets have had to get smaller to keep our innards in. The result of that is that the space for birthing is much smaller and this mismatch leads to the sort of obstetric problems we now see that require interventions to save lives.

Sadly nature does not always know best! Blind worship of what is "natural" kills people.

Something like 4 per 1000 in 1900. And that cut across all classes. As did babies dying during birth or shortly after.

Again to be clear, I don't want to see mothers criminalised but those online 'communities', those 'gurus', yes. Jail.

It’s child neglect. Plain and simple.

This was my thought when I saw it was the US.

I don’t think it should be banned, mainly because once you start with that you end with not being able to make any medical choice that the doctor doesn’t agree with.

BUT I do think freebirthing is highly dangerous. I had one home water birth. I had to be transferred to hospital after the baby was born due to a serious medical complication with me. It was awful but I am alive because I had midwives there who made that call (I was barely conscious to make those choices and I’m glad I didn’t have to). My second child was born via planned c section. Having experienced a range of birthing experiences, I’m glad I had autonomy but I also highly value medical care too.

What we need is safe, informed, consent based midwifery and consultant care at hospital or at home so that the ‘push factor’ is reduced. We also need to educate women on the dangerous posed by these influencers (the ‘pull factor’). I am also not adverse to prosecuting anyone who crosses the line into giving medical advice which from the article it seems like these women did.

I think one of the biggest problems is the culture of silence about how awful even a ‘normal’ ‘easy’ birth is. And so women, who have previously had full bodily autonomy are shocked (and traumatised) by how animalistic a process it is. Even if you know intellectually there will be pain and a lot of bodily fluids it is a bit of a shock to the system. And what is a deeply memorable event to you is just another day at work for a midwife so they meet your heightened emotions with a shrug and a ‘yip totally normal’
And then there are the exceptions who have catastrophes and the ones who ‘didn’t even notice too they were 10cm dilated , one push and it was done’’

That’s an absolutely disgusting view. The NHS are making a CHOICE to not train more midwives and not have hospitals properly staffed. Home births make up 5% of UK births at most (depends on area), there are NOT 100s of spare midwives kicking about, you are totally deluded! Further to this home birth midwives are regularly diverted into hospitals to cover staffing gaps anyway.

I think it’s disgusting of women to think their personal preference comes above the general wellbeing of their community and children.

No it’s not. I refer you back to the Handmaids tale

Walking upright hasn’t been great for the old pelvis true. What makes is worse is giving birth on your back. It prevents the pelvis from fully opening and makes the baby go uphill to get out.

Knowing about this and encouraging either side lying (when having an epidural or for someone with mobility issues) or squatted positions would make a huge difference.

NHS care seems to be amount maximising the impact to resource ratio. It’s a hard thing to stomach when you’re in labour but there are lots of other women there too and you are not the most important

WTF?! Are you actually being serious? Modern medical interventions have meant many more babies and women make it through childbirth.

@Thingsaretight cant let these women get any ideas about having opinions or wants for their own births