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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

CDC changes stance on vaccine autism link. AIBU to be furious and appalled?

150 replies

helpsent · 21/11/2025 11:50

I just saw this on another thread so had a look online. It’s ridiculous, irresponsible, downright dangerous and absolutely not based on science.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccine-safety/about/autism.html

https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2025/11/20/nx-s1-5615040/cdc-rfk-childhood-vaccines-autism

Autism and Vaccines

Answers to common questions about vaccine safety and autism.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccine-safety/about/autism.html

OP posts:
bumblingbovine49 · 21/11/2025 18:05

Foe the increase in autism and adhd, my best guess ( and I emphasise it is a guess not based on much evidence other than it is clearly not because of vaccines) is a combination of

1 - Massive increase in use of sceeens
2- Average at which we start having children is older ( there is some evidence for a link between older parents and autism I think)
3) Changes in diet introduced along with industrialisation with much more processed foods. As other have mentioned there is also some.evidence that diet has an impact on autism and adhd symptoms.
4) - better recognition and diagnosis of those that do have autism and adhd

So probably much more complex than just one thing

helpsent · 21/11/2025 18:07

Celestialmoods · 21/11/2025 15:52

Absolutely no studies have shown a link with autism. And there have been many.

This doesn’t mean that there is no link though. It all depends on what the studies have been looking for and how that have been doing it.

  • The claim "vaccines do not cause autism" is not an evidence-based claim because studies have not ruled out the possibility that infant vaccines cause autism.

This is true, and has always been obvious IMO. My dc are grown so I haven’t paid attention to recent research for a long time, but it was certainly the case when the Wakefield scandal was at its height. We were expected to believe that vaccines were automatically safe because a link hadn’t been found, when children whose parents believed their children had vaccine induced autism were never included in any other study.

We always knew that the claim ‘vaccines do not cause autism’ couldn’t be proved, and if the government hadn’t treated us as if we were too stupid to work that out, we’d have had less reason to mistrust them.

So does that mean that you would never trust any scientific research at all, because you can’t disprove a negative? There has been years if research looking at possible causes of autism
including vaccines. Do you think that the scientists have just not bothered to look at some aspects of vaccines and autism?
What would you say if a research paper came out that said breastfeeding causes autism? Or formula feeding? But then that study was found to be flawed. Would you remain suspicious of breast / formula feeding?
A responsible government should be making it clear that there has been a huge amount of research into vaccine safety, autism and into a possible link between the two, and no causation / link has been found. Because that is the truth. By putting a “yet” at the end of that is irresponsible and dangerous. If the public choose to think “well not yet” themselves then that’s on them.

OP posts:
helpsent · 21/11/2025 18:08

BlueJuniper94 · 21/11/2025 17:54

This no longer means anything.

Why does it not mean anything?

OP posts:
dynamiccactus · 21/11/2025 18:12

randomchap · 21/11/2025 12:20

Andrew Wakefield is a cunt and should be prosecuted for pushing this lie. A lie that has caused a massive drop in vaccine take up. And will cause deaths.

Sorry, I should have given his full medical title. "Andrew Wakefield"

Wakefield didn't come up with the idea - it was a concern before he came along, All he did was make it more of one, parents were worried before.

helpsent · 21/11/2025 18:18

curious79 · 21/11/2025 15:35

They already are - of turbo cancers, myocarditis, MS, Lupus.

The drop in cases of every one of these ‘lethal’ diseases, small pox included, can be linked to improvements in public sanitation and dietary improvements. Every. Single. One.

I found this interesting teaching material from the CDC from several years ago. I’m sure this has now been burnt in the fire but it blows your bullshit out of the water.
And “turbo cancer” only exists in the world of conspiracy theorists, meaning it doesn’t actually exist at all.

https://www.cdc.gov/museum/pdf/cdcm-pha-stem-lesson-smallpox-eradication-lesson.pdf

OP posts:
StandFirm · 21/11/2025 18:20

Trumpism is a DISASTER for global health: cuts to cancer research, this travesty of a stance on vaccines... and beyond the CDC, cuts to international aid have also gutted the WHO. Fucking great.

helpsent · 21/11/2025 18:20

dynamiccactus · 21/11/2025 18:12

Wakefield didn't come up with the idea - it was a concern before he came along, All he did was make it more of one, parents were worried before.

How does that absolve him?

OP posts:
MairOldAlibi · 21/11/2025 18:21

dynamiccactus · 21/11/2025 18:12

Wakefield didn't come up with the idea - it was a concern before he came along, All he did was make it more of one, parents were worried before.

“All he did”??

He got struck off for -amongst other things- falsifying data, financial dishonesty, and taking it upon himself to do unnecessary research colonoscopies on children without ethics committee oversight or approval.

mumofoneAloneandwell · 21/11/2025 18:23

I'm a proud sen mum

Dd showed her autism signs before having the vaccine (it was delayed due to the pandemic)

Tbh I dont blame people for not wanting to vaccinate their kids for fear of autism.

I love my dd and wouldnt change her - and I can say that I wouldnt change her because I have it relatively easy, I am exhausted but very lucky that we arent affected more severely, by the grace of god.

The reaction of the scientific community to outliers is harsh, and further makes me doubt their trustworthiness tbh. I remember being in school and reading about someone questioning Darwin or someone and being completely blacklisted

So yeah, I can't judge someone for not trusting the vaccine. This may be down to Trump, may not. But no judgement from me.

EasternStandard · 21/11/2025 18:35

bumblingbovine49 · 21/11/2025 18:05

Foe the increase in autism and adhd, my best guess ( and I emphasise it is a guess not based on much evidence other than it is clearly not because of vaccines) is a combination of

1 - Massive increase in use of sceeens
2- Average at which we start having children is older ( there is some evidence for a link between older parents and autism I think)
3) Changes in diet introduced along with industrialisation with much more processed foods. As other have mentioned there is also some.evidence that diet has an impact on autism and adhd symptoms.
4) - better recognition and diagnosis of those that do have autism and adhd

So probably much more complex than just one thing

I don’t think increase in autism will be linked to screen use. ADHD maybe worth exploring. On this might be worth separating them out.

randomchap · 21/11/2025 18:54

dynamiccactus · 21/11/2025 18:12

Wakefield didn't come up with the idea - it was a concern before he came along, All he did was make it more of one, parents were worried before.

Whether he came up with the idea or not, he ran an unethical experiment. Fudged the results, and pushed bullshit misinformation.

He's a cunt

His so called science has caused deaths.

Parents being worried? Then do proper research to try to get to the bottom of it. Don't just produce absolute crap that will cause harm

StartingFreshFor2026 · 21/11/2025 19:49

BlueJuniper94 · 21/11/2025 17:57

What conspiracy theories?

Antivax, covid isn't real, that we won't be allowed outside 15 minute cities so the government can control us.

Shmee1988 · 21/11/2025 19:55

randomchap · 21/11/2025 15:50

Go against the grain? No, you're going against multiple scientific studies.

There is no link, none whatsoever.

Get out of your social media bubble. Read more widely, stop propagating bullshit propaganda.

Im not on social media, but thats not really the point. The amount of people who think the 'scientists' are not owned by the big pharmacy companies is pretty scary. The same thing happened in covid and people's lives and livelihoods were threatened when they tried to tell the truth. I am not saying that there is a link, just that its not unthinkable. The covid vaccine was safe..... until it wasnt.

TowerRavenSeven · 21/11/2025 20:00

Wait until parents stop getting polio vaccines for their kids and see what happens. Idiots.

AlltheHedgehogsontheWall · 21/11/2025 20:04

bumblingbovine49 · 21/11/2025 18:05

Foe the increase in autism and adhd, my best guess ( and I emphasise it is a guess not based on much evidence other than it is clearly not because of vaccines) is a combination of

1 - Massive increase in use of sceeens
2- Average at which we start having children is older ( there is some evidence for a link between older parents and autism I think)
3) Changes in diet introduced along with industrialisation with much more processed foods. As other have mentioned there is also some.evidence that diet has an impact on autism and adhd symptoms.
4) - better recognition and diagnosis of those that do have autism and adhd

So probably much more complex than just one thing

Well my Mum is extremely anti-screens, super healthy and cooks everything from scratch with little to no UPFs, and had both my brother and I before 35 and yet we're both autistic, and I have ADHD. Funny thing, she's also very obviously AuDHD and my Dad is very likely autistic too. Almost as if the reason we are ND is because it's genetic.

Fun fact: ACTING ND for behavioural reasons is not the same as BEING ND. Having no social skills because you've spent your childhood in front of screens is not the same thing as not picking up on social cues despite good socialisation because you are autistic. Bouncing off the walls because you are up to your eyeballs on sugar, caffeine and processed additives is not the same thing as being permanently hyperactive because you have ADHD. Struggling with executive function because you have depression is not the same as having permanent executive functioning disorder because you have AuDHD.

You can't diagnose ND in a person or child who has obvious other barriers, such as poor parenting, which can be removed and result in an apparent "cure", anymore than you can diagnose someone who's had a skinful with mania only to find they are perfectly sane, if a little unwell, a few hours later.

randomchap · 21/11/2025 20:31

Shmee1988 · 21/11/2025 19:55

Im not on social media, but thats not really the point. The amount of people who think the 'scientists' are not owned by the big pharmacy companies is pretty scary. The same thing happened in covid and people's lives and livelihoods were threatened when they tried to tell the truth. I am not saying that there is a link, just that its not unthinkable. The covid vaccine was safe..... until it wasnt.

Again, you're just pushing conspiracy theories. Lies and bullshit.

You're using a phone/tablet/computer that can access a whole world of genuine, well researched information. And you've gravitated to the bullshit and lies. What does that say about you?

PigeonsandSquirrels · 21/11/2025 20:48

PegDope · 21/11/2025 12:19

I would hazard a guess that’s it’s the raging metabolic syndrome that the majority of us have. Mitochondrial dysfunction improves vastly on a low carb diet and autism and ADHD symptoms also improve dramatically.

However it’s almost all anecdotal or animal studies because there is no money in telling people to eat fat and protein for health.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10431618/
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10431618/

  1. long term ketogenesis damages your heart.
  2. Motochondria literally turn glucose into energy. Glucose comes from carbs. How would removing the building blocks for the mitochondria’s central job limit its dysfunction?
  3. Theres so much money in the protein industry it’s led to people eating far more protein than they need. There’s millions and millions being made from the protein pushing health industry it’s on every shelf of the supermarket 😂
  4. That study is talking about gut microbiota…. It doesn’t mention mitochondria once.
SnoworRainbow · 21/11/2025 21:02

PegDope · 21/11/2025 12:19

I would hazard a guess that’s it’s the raging metabolic syndrome that the majority of us have. Mitochondrial dysfunction improves vastly on a low carb diet and autism and ADHD symptoms also improve dramatically.

However it’s almost all anecdotal or animal studies because there is no money in telling people to eat fat and protein for health.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10431618/
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10431618/

And maybe if I eat enough blueberries my eyes will turn blue. Jesus.

KitTea3 · 21/11/2025 21:40

Ablondiebutagoody · 21/11/2025 12:47

Because I have seen the increased incidence with my own eyes, not because someone somewhere was counting differently and telling me. There is something very worrying going on with our children and I prefer not to dismiss any potential cause. Everything is on the table for me.

Apparently it hasn't occured to anyone that autism has been very much shown to be genetic

Which when you look at the history explains a lot.

For many people they will exclaim "autism didn't exist back in my day!". Except it did. As far back as 1911. But back then it was originally believed to be a type of schizophrenia (kids with it were often diagnosed as having "childhood schizophrenia") it wasn't separated from that as a distinct diagnosis of its own till the 1980s with the publication of the DSM:III

Now typically anyone diagnosed with that...certainly up until the closure of them, would most likely have been institutionalised. And sadly especially during the 20th century many would have been forcibly steralised . So none of them were likely to ever have kids or pass on their genetics.

Another point would be that women especially, certainly prior to the early 2000s weren't even thought of as even being able to have autism. This was due to the major gender bias and the fact that also every study on autism to that point had ONLY been focused on males. As we now know women can be as much affected but we also know that women/girls are far more likely to be able to mask the symptoms, so combine that with the lack of medical knowledge and the very limited chance any girl back then would even be assessed means you have a whole generation of women who most likely always had autism but were never ever considered for evaluation or diagnosis.

Which leads to my next point, most of those women born in the 80s/90s are the ones currently having children. So if they didn't know they had autism and it was a partt of their genes many women have unknowingly passed that on. Obviously as there has been 30+ years of research in that time, schools etc are far more aware of it, and far more likely to screen and refer to assessment. That has then, as obviously a parents observations of the child are a key part of the diagnostic asessment has led to many parents whos kids are diagnosed to suddenly question their whole lives as they realise they took have the same issues and struggles as their child.

And then you take into account the fact that typically the age at which people have kids is ever increasing and one known fact is that as men get older the quality of sperm decreases and as such older men are more likely to father children that had autism.

So if you add all of those together it becomes quite apparent why there is seemingly an "increase"

And it's fuck all to do with vaccines

GasperyJacquesRoberts · 21/11/2025 21:45

I first went to school in the 1970s and progressed to secondary school in the 1980s. Back then I hadn't even heard of ADHD let alone knew anyone who had been diagnosed with it or was being treated for it. We just had one or two kids in every class who couldn't sit still, who were constantly distracted, who were hopeless at written exams and who couldn't stop talking. They were just written off as annoying weirdos by the teachers.

Similarly we hadn't heard of autism back then. We just had some kids who could tell you an astonishing amount of detail about the Napier Deltic engines in Class 55 locomotives but couldn't look you in the eye, hated it when their routines were disturbed, and tended to sit at the back of the class while rocking on their chair. There was also a special school next to the comprehensive I went to where there were kids who took all those kinds of behaviours to such an extent that they couldn't cope with mainstream education.

But sure. All these autism and ADHD diagnoses have come out of nowhere 🙄

Milosc · 22/11/2025 05:14

curious79 · 21/11/2025 15:35

They already are - of turbo cancers, myocarditis, MS, Lupus.

The drop in cases of every one of these ‘lethal’ diseases, small pox included, can be linked to improvements in public sanitation and dietary improvements. Every. Single. One.

This makes no sense. Lupus cases have nothing to do with improved sanitation and dietary improvements. It is an incurable genetic disease. Cases haven't dropped. It is widely undiagnosed as well. The same applies to MS. It has absolutely nothing to do with anything you argue and certainly not akin to small pox.

GAJLY · 22/11/2025 14:20

curious79 · 21/11/2025 13:43

My daughter didn't go near it. One girl in her school was off for 3 weeks, another couldn't use for arm for a week. A neighbour's daughter developed POTS shortly after.

There are huge class action lawsuits in motion against the HPV vaccine. Educate yourself

.

Holluschickie · 22/11/2025 14:23

The HPV vaccine reduced cervical cancer rates by.almost 90%, according to a Lancet study.news.cancerresearchuk.org/2021/11/03/the-power-of-science-hpv-vaccine-proven-to-dramatically-reduce-cervical-cancer/

IMightMentionGriddlebone · 22/11/2025 14:46

I'd just like to put it out there that my mother was anti-vaccination and believed everything can be treated by raw garlic. So I didn't have any of the childhood vaccinations.

I still got diagnosed with aspergers syndrome (although she never accepted this!) As part of my adolescent rebellion, I got into biology and caught up on the vaccine schedule, including the MMR. Guess what, I didn't observe any long-term worsening of my AS and nor did anyone else. In the short term, I was grumpy and miserable for 24 hours, because the MMR is an attenuated vaccine, not a dead one, and I was one of the ones who experienced mild measles symptoms.

Incidentally, my experience with the mild version has left me convinced that exposure to wild measles virus would have killed me! You bet my children are fully vaccinated.

SurreySENMum · 23/11/2025 13:42

helpsent · 21/11/2025 14:18

That suggests that there hasn’t been any proper scientific research done so far. But there has absolutely loads. What exactly do you want?

As a scientist? To only read research via sources like New Scientist.

As mum of a child with severe Autism a open mind. I have meet multiple parents with a child's diagnosis as vaccine damage diagnosed via NHS. So I see it's rare and I can see it happens. Vaccines can save millions of lives. Very rarely they also destroy them. Both can be true at the same time. It didn't stop me chosing the MMR with my next child.

I don't belive research should ever stop on any topic but I realise funding is a issue. Science only evolves via research. Even AI will need humans in labs

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