To say please don’t give money to the Christmas market beggars

[Nutmuncher]

This will seem controversial to some but as someone living in a City centre the Christmas markets attract high numbers of beggars, addicts and alcoholics.

Please do not give them money because it simply encourages them to keep coming back every year in larger numbers. It is frustrating to say the least when you see the same faces sat in the same spots day after day and visitors take pity on them without realising they’re only perpetuating the never ending cycle.

My advice is to instead donate to your local children’s charity or food bank to give to those struggling to provide who aren’t begging or feeding an addiction.

Yes there may be a bed. In fact I dont think the UK has a problem with sufficient numbers of beds ( I may be wrong). But for many people, especially women, hostels are not the safe haven you might think they are. Huge problem with drugs, alcohol, violence etc. It’s not a surprise to me that some people will feel safer on the street than trapped in a hostel with God knows what going on.

I never give them money.

I used to see a man in Spain who begged at the traffic queue heading into Gibraltar. He'd park his bike a short distance away, walking perfectly normally. When got closer to the queue, he'd put on a huge limp, hunch over and drag himself along the queue begging for money. When he'd collected enough, he'd walk back to his bike straigtening up as he went. 😂

I’m not saying rough sleepers and addicts are “undeserving” of help in any way - few people need help more. Nor am I saying that the help that is available is always the right sort of help - it can be overly conditional or simply not that helpful (there are often good reasons why people aren’t engage with the support available).

But people giving money to people begging need to realise for better or worse they are part of a wider system of factors that contribute to helping or hindering.

When people know someone, understand what a their needs are and whether they need cash, food, clothes, help accessing services or a gofundme that’s great.

And some people are happy to give money to people completely unconditionally. Maybe the person giving £20 that night was totally aware the person they were giving it to was likely to use it to shoot up, who can say.

But I think there are lots of people who are well intentioned but have little understanding of the complexity of homelessness and think that a few £ will help pay for food and maybe a couple of cans without thinking about the complex system they are becoming part of.

i mean yes the chances are if he hadn’t died that night it would have been another night. Yes it’s complex and hard but I don’t think handing over £20 to someone on the street with no knowledge of their circumstances is the answer.

I would say that YANBU but only if you - hand on heart give money to a charity that helps the homeless, such as Shelter or Emmaus or a local charity. I have to confess that I often mean to do that but don’t.

It would be simplistic and untrue to refuse to help in some way because of a conviction that people are destitute because they are addicts or have brought their circumstances on themselves.

Of course it's not "the answer". But neither is it the problem.

It's a difficult one because yes, there's many professional beggars, plenty of general grifters, rentable dogs slogging away stiffly on shifts wanting a walk but knowing this is their lot, (but they are at least outside) and organized trafficking gangs, and organized infiltration of systems, competing with, pushing out, and at times directly endangering the actual homeless.
Some of whom have substance/ alcohol issues, some MH and CPTSD issues, and a lot with ASD and ADHD, some who've taken on unwanted dogs they've bonded with, some who've become homeless trying not to lose their best friend, and all sorts of mixtures of all of it, who can't or don't want to engage with charities and all their regulations, rules, and sometimes overly PC demands, of people who may be struggling to just function at all.

Everyone knows about most of the above.

But sadly there can also be in fighting, manipulation, and favoritism and demonisation by those in power in charities to their users, and sometimes really awful behavior and sacking off of those in whose names they raise money for and are paid and engaged to lecture the public on, with their expertise.
Critical thinking here, also needs to be engaged, but it's not something much talked about publicly.

We see people with whom trust was slowly developed, slowly raised up and being heralded as the success stories in the making. Then just as they where about to get somewhere, without warning suddenly slammed down and booted out, by people professing to care passionately, making their living providing for them, and who's expecting that?

They're now doubly broken, deeply betrayed, and who's going to believe they did nothing or very little to deserve what's been done to them, especially if they've been barred from services for six months? It's natural to assume what ever's been claimed they did, is true. In times past, it usually was, and they'd had warnings to address x or y and hadn't. That's no longer a given at all.

From the inside you discover what's really going on and it's very poisonous and pretty much just as bad morally as any grifters or organized begging, and aims to raise one person and their current supporters, at the cost of many, including often the previous post holder, and or CEO.
(We're no one, but have started to identify commonalities beyond barred and damaged homeless, that indicate this situation is playing out.)

We find ourselves picking up the deeply humiliated and bewildered unable to trust their own judgement any more, whose story and profile is still being used to fund raise, but they've been ordered away, including from their social groups at drop ins, and are now entirely broken, unable to trust anyone again. Some turn back to old habits completing their downfall, and further hiding the injustices.
It's only when it became a pattern, we started to realise what we where seeing.

And then there's all those who don't beg, who need food, services,and knowledge, but wont engage with standard systems for many reasons.
Some are working and you'd just never guess they're homeless in tents. They want to stay that way, hoping to not have any of what's happened recorded.
The other extreme is some who are silently not even asking for help or seeking out anything anymore, because they've lost the will to keep going.

I do want to stress many charities are doing sterling hard work, but it can be variable, sometimes inflexible, or despite it's undoubted quality just not compatible with all needs.
It can be easier to say that's a recipient issue, rather than one size doesn't fit all.
But it's also generally not in their interests for the public to support alternatives to their systems.

Some of us feel we know increasing numbers are falling through the net and pretty much why, and are trying a different approach.

It's why in the 'sector' of 'dynamic need response, peer support' pop up kitchens and welfare support, mainly choose to be unbranded and not actively seek financial donations from the public.
(aside from the London Sikh Langar who do, but from their own community, but so far have proved to be fab for those able to access them.)

If this Government can put asylum seekers in hotels they can also put the homeless in them too . This post isn’t meant to be goady or anti asylum seeker it’s just stating a fact . The Government managed to get all the homeless off the streets during lockdown. A homeless woman told me it was heaven waking up in a dry warm bed everyday . As soon as lockdown was over out they were turfed . She was also pregnant living on the streets when she spoke to me and was told she wouldn’t be given accommodation until she was five months pregnant, the Government probably hoping she miscarried. I don’t know if this was true what I was told .

I used to live on one of the toughest council estates in the area when I went to uni. I was there 8 years so I got to know many of the inhabitants well. Like me they had council tenancies on a bleak hard to lat estate. I would see them sitting in strategic places like the opera house and the cinema for the evening performances. Then they would come into the local shops to spend their pockets full of one pound coins.

People locally give money to the Big Issue Seller outside the local Aldi.

She's been there since before 2018...

"The Big Issue exists to support people who are homeless, long term unemployed or in need of extra cash to avoid falling into debt."

It's probably better than Only Fans.

The man I see with a dog and give money to says he had his dog before he became homeless and that they keep each other going. He's homeless and an alcoholic but his dog is well trained and always looks to be in good condition considering it lives in a tent.

I've never had any concerns about the dog, just seems like a well behaved dog to me.

I remember one occasion when i saw a beggar. I don’t know where she was from, but it didn’t look like she could speak English.
She had lots of medication in a little cardboard box in front of her. Which puzzled me.

A man stopped, bent over and calmly said to her: why can’t we deport you?

This was London Bridge, at 8:30, so, you can imagine how busy it was.
Heads still swivelled!

This is not true. The Big Issue did start out as a way to give homeless a step up but at least 20 years ago it was taken over by gangs who turfed out the original sellers by aggressive tactics and replaced them with foreign gangs who recognised an opportunity. Now, most Big Issue sellers are Romanian/Bulgarian and don't even have to sell that many copies as they are deemed self employed and this provides a gateway to benefits, et al.

I once walked past a young lad sat on the steps of a car park on a bitterly cold evening. His clothes had stains on them and he looked dirty. He was crouched up in a ball with his head hanging low and wasn't even asking people for money. I gave him all the cash I had, which was only about £8, he looked surprised but was very grateful, he also looked very worn down and depressed. I don't care if he bought alcohol with it, or whatever he needed to get through a cold night on the streets, it's not for me to judge. I have a son with mental health issues and id hate to think he ever ended up like that. I didn't offer him advice about charities or homeless shelters as I didn't know the area. It was late on a Saturday evening, I was alone and there wasn't much else I could do but give him a bit of cash and a kind word. It didn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside, it made me feel very sad.

This isn’t true in the nearest town to where I live. The Big Issue sellers are mainly white British men. I’m not saying you’re wrong, but what happens in big cities doesn’t always translate to where many of us live.

True to where you live. Not true to where I live and it's been the case for many years. In fact, there was a story in the papers years ago about the Big Issue sellers being taken over by gangs.

Well there are 'begging dogs' that are rented, and then there are pets engaged in 'earning', and then there are canine friends found on the streets, who learn this is what my person wants.

IME, there are one's to be concerned about, but most are fine.

Some trained begging dogs have quite ordinary housed owners who train them, and rent them out, partly to pay for their upkeep. Some are very careful about who they rent to, some less so. (the latter usually eventually lose the dog for it)
How they're initially trained is as good and bad as standard owners. Some train well through love and attention, some badly through anger or fear..
For many it's just a routine, and for some one they're rewarded for before and after,, for others it's just what they are used to, and they really want to go stretch their legs. (owners will usually let them get up and wander, or play with them, renters usually don't)
For most dogs, lying down a lot of the day out doors, smelling the world, and meeting new people, is vastly preferable to doing the same thing without the people and smells, while stuck indoors going nowhere.

A beggar can act, as if 'it's my best mate' the dog even if ok enough, will swiftly show that's not the case if it doesn't appreciate who it's with.

Drugged or sedated 'begging dogs' (as opposed to homeless with pets begging) would be highly unusual and raise suspicions and action from the homeless communities. Scared ones, that aren't being re acclimatized and socialized by someone who's taken them on in that state, get noticed. No one likes it.

Homeless folks dogs are often highly empathic and often giving a level of 'canine therapy' to many human friends.

Giving away your best mate: It's one thing to try to decide to desperately rehome your cute little likeable Pomeranian or spaniel, when life fails, rather than go onto the streets together and put them at risk.

It's quite another when it's your wrong side of middle age, halitosis ridden, slobbery, abscess tending, Pitti/Rottie etc cross that will easily end up briefly in a shelter before being put down as poor chances of adoption. Or your mad chaotic, LBD that destroys and chews everything and gaily thinks house training's for humans,

You'll find the majority of the chaotic and barely able to care for themselves, will center everything around their dogs. For some it is their entire world, reason for living, their very best and often only, friend. The dog knows, and they form the routine of begging together.in harmony.

Dogs at encampments make friends and care about most of the neighbors too.

Just as with standard owners, some will sometimes fail to seek treatment when they think something is part of age, but once someone pushes them to get a street vets opinion, will get stuck into treating them, and go without to do it.
Most have incredibly strong bonds, and any time spent with them and their dogs will soon tell you who is who. Street dogs have no more desire to have their person taken away, than the other way round, even though they're often highly social with groups of others and can be cared for in emergencies.

Homeless dog meet homeless new mate: Sometimes a literal stray, sometimes substance abuse leads to either being given away, left behind or lost, and adopted by someone more sorted. Sadly some are because the homeless owner dies and the dog is taken on by someone who knew them. These dogs can look depressed and low energy for several months. They aren't drugged, they're grieving, and often the new owner is too.

IME for a majority of dogs actually living homeless, it's a not bad life, with a lot less rules, way more freedom to do canine things, and a lot of walking and exploring involved, when not earning with their mate, and being fussed.

(Street vets will generally check for microchips by the way, and free micro-chipping is available)

The above is a mainly Londoncentric and other cities view btw

I have often wondered about the dogs in that situation and have thought what a grim circumstance for them to be in.

Thank you for a such a thoughtful and insightful and knowledgeable post.

I think it's good advice not to give to UK beggars generally. I'm never sure where the money is going to end up. Instead I make monthly donations to 2 homelessness charities and also cook for a local soup kitchen and a night shelter. That helps steel my resolve as I walk past them.

That being said, I spend a lot of time in a seaside city with a massive homeless population. I've got to know several of them by sight, (none with the churned out cardboard sign). Sadly a lot of them seem to be ex armed forces. I will occasionally give them a little bit towards a hostel or a hot meal.

I was in Las Vegas last month and lots of beggars had beautifully illuminated and decorated cardboard signs. It intrigued me how so many needy people had access to top quality art supplies.

I was in Las Vegas last month and lots of beggars had beautifully illuminated and decorated cardboard signs. It intrigued me how so many needy people had access to top quality art supplies.

I could be well off kilter here, but I'd suspect materials will be borrowed through equivalent creativity groups over there to what we do here. 🙂

We do various pop up skills, art, craft, writing, theater sessions, (not as frequently as I'd like) which include old school calligraphy, new school graffiti lettering, design, printing, and decoration, amongst many things.
We're actually trying to offer developing skills beyond begging, 'Merica, may do things differently.
I purposely supply good quality materials because it's only when you have mastered skills that you get good results from cheap stuff, and helping people find they can do things, is part of them developing from where they are.
Also being shown you're considered worth it matters to those usually fobbed off with what others think they're worth.
But the only begging sign I've seen made at our pop up's was an ironic piece for an art exhibition. We do those too, helingp people who want to build a CV with organizational, publicity, photography curation, and exhibition skills.

That complex system called society?

Great. Hopefully the crack addicts who’s habits you feed will end up moving in to your neighbourhood destroying your quality of life too xx

I never give them money.

I used to see a man in Spain who begged at the traffic queue heading into Gibraltar. He'd park his bike a short distance away, walking perfectly normally. When got closer to the queue, he'd put on a huge limp, hunch over and drag himself along the queue begging for money. When he'd collected enough, I suppose, he'd walk back to his bike straightening up as he went. 😂

I think people can think it’s good to give money unconditionally (“it’s up to them what they spend it on”) but it’s actually highly conditional - it’s help they can only access if they stay on the street, stay in a vulnerable situation, continue to appear needy. Basically it’s a trap.