To say please don’t give money to the Christmas market beggars

[Nutmuncher]

This will seem controversial to some but as someone living in a City centre the Christmas markets attract high numbers of beggars, addicts and alcoholics.

Please do not give them money because it simply encourages them to keep coming back every year in larger numbers. It is frustrating to say the least when you see the same faces sat in the same spots day after day and visitors take pity on them without realising they’re only perpetuating the never ending cycle.

My advice is to instead donate to your local children’s charity or food bank to give to those struggling to provide who aren’t begging or feeding an addiction.

She'd be an addict either way. If she doesn't get money from begging, she'll get it from stealing or prostituting. Would you prefer that?

I only recently discovered that homeless people are entitled to and do receive benefits so they aren’t completely destitute. Many choose that lifestyle rather than use hostel accommodation. In our area we have an active charity service supporting them who have asked that people don’t give money direct to the beggars. So although I feel compassionate towards them, especially in harsh weather, and I want them to be cared for, I’m content to leave it to the right authorities to help them.

I don’t give money to beggars, on principle.
But, I wouldn’t actually mind if they spent my (hypothetical) money on booze, or drugs.
Who wouldn’t want a little oblivion if you’re living on the streets??

What i do mind is giving money that are just grifters, and there’s an awful lot of that going on.

The one consistent thing you here from people who have been homeless is how dehumanising it is, and that a simple thing you can do is just talk to them.

If I have a few minutes I’ll stop, ask how they are, say I’ve got no cash on me (invariably true these days) but if there’s anything they need I will pop into a shop for them.

A other thing you can do is notify streetlink which allows you to share details of someone sleeping rough to help homelessness outreach services find them.

It is a tricky one and I do know some people will advocate for giving money without judgement but I very rarely give cash.

Gangs often put vulnerable looking folk out though.

I’ve heard various arguments around this, including the fact that if people aren’t willing to give people money, then addicts will turn to more desperate/extreme measures to fuel their addiction, and that addicts can’t get into hostels etc because of their addiction.

However others argue that the fact that people can get money on the street to buy drink/drugs is just perpetuating their addiction and preventing them from getting help.

For me - I know that if addicts stay on the streets the drink/drugs will probably kill them sooner or later, and I’d rather not be financing their early death.

This is a crazy thread. I will give to beggars if i want too and if they want to buy booze they bloody well can!

Some are entitled, but it can be v difficult to access them (the admin when you have no fixed abode can be a major barrier - eg you need a bank account to pay into, but it’s hard to open a bank account without proof of address). Others have “no recourse to public funds” (migrants, trafficked people etc), who are literally entitled to absolutely nothing.

I came here to say exactly the same thing. I hate these type of supercilious posts.

Hundreds of people die while homeless every year, largely linked to drug and alcohol use.

As I said in my post above, it’s complicated but it’s not just about people tutting about money being spent on a can of lager instead of food, it’s worrying whether the money you’re giving is literally killing them.

They'll get that lager one way or another. It's naive to think an addict will go without their fix if you don't give them cash.
It's fine to decide that you don't want your money to fund a habit, but don't kid yourself that it's helping.

Of course they are, but if you do not have a bank account and no one you can trust to have your benefits paid into, you’re stuffed.

I work in mental health and this is an ongoing issue for people who are homeless and do not have an existing bank account

On top of that, if you only qualify for basic UC you’re expected to actively look for work full time - I challenge you to jump through those hoops as a homeless person .

It’s nowhere near as simple as your privileged brain thinks it is.

Have you reported that to the police? That’s likely to be some form of slavery/trafficking.

In theory good idea but if it’s not her time of the month what is she supposed to do with it until then.

In our city there are people who actually approach you and will aggressively ask for money. It’s scary.

Oh I’m sure the police know all about it, they don’t seem to do anything though.

Walk around the West End / Oxford Street / Covent Garden etc - there’s hundreds of them (no exaggeration).

Is there any right answer? How much to charities spend on giving their CEOs a big check?

I’ve spoken to people who run walk-in day centres for homeless people offering all kinds of support and they can’t get people to engage because they can sit on the street and earn enough begging to comfortably keep them in their habit.

And yes the counter argument is that they if they aren’t begging, if they are that desperate it’ll be shoplifting or mugging and what’s worse?

One story that sticks with me is from an outreach worker who has been working over a period time with an entrenched rough sleeper and trying to get them to engage with their support - he’d finally got him to agree to come in, but a few hours later he never showed up. The next day he was found dead. In the intervening hours a benevolent passer by had given him a £20 note - with this unexpected windfall he immmediately went to score a fix and ODed. That person who gave a homeless guy £20 that night probably went home with a warm glow, having no idea at all that it had killed him.

I don’t know there’s a single right answer but “how much are charity CEOs paid?” is definitely the wrong question.

I think that’s ridiculous and paternalistic. @crinklechips, and sounds disturbingly close to 19thc ideas about the ‘deserving’ and ‘undeserving’ poor.

Outreach workers, however experienced and well-intentioned, can’t force anyone to engage with their services. Many rough sleepers don’t want to enter hostels because the rules are too restrictive/difficult to addicts with additional MH difficulties. The person who gave that man money isn’t responsible for his death. I’m aware through friends of a longterm homeless person who was housed in a home of his own via a community GoFundMe. It’s everything he ever wanted, in a beautiful rural place of his choosing, with land so he can grow food, but unsurprisingly he’s still experiencing considerable MH difficulties and is anxious and sometimes aggressive towards outreach.

All charities who work for the homeless advise this same response too.

because it is in their interests for us to give us their money. Plenty of which goes on salaries (not saying that is wrong) and admin. And in the meantime as a few of us have mentioned, there are still plenty of people they shut out due to dogmatic and inflexible policies.

And so, i and plenty of people in my town continue to support the ones we know are marginalised by the organisations who are supposed to help them. And i do give money to charities, not homeless ones because i put my money towards womens aid and VAWAG charities.

And most of us don't need lectures on what to do. A bit of a "heads up... big issue..." type of info is fine. Preachy "you are all so wrong" is... meh.

That's a sad story but anyone who has ever known an addict will tell you that it in all likelihood just the latest in a series of promises to engage and to change and unexpected windfalls.
Addiction is complex and isn't resolved by keeping people broke or single visits to drop in centres. That £20 isn't what killed him.

Yes this is a thing. I never give these people anything. It is so unbelievable. Most people in this country do not approach strangers - people who do this go into the “you are a massive piss taker” category.

Also it’s men approaching women. Intimidating. I never see these men asking men.

I worry about the ones with dogs. Or rather I worry about the dogs

Although there may be some people who owned the dog before they became homeless, I’m guessing these are the minority. Mostly I suspect that the dogs are also being exploited.

Firstly, if that was my beloved pet, I would rather it had a good home instead of living on the street.

Secondly, how have all these people with addictions or chaotic lives got such well behaved dogs? They are always sitting quietly on a blanket. Mine dog would do that for about 10 mins max. I am I cynical to think these dogs have been drugged or sedated? Or beaten into submission?

In this country the police are going to step in if small children or babies are involved in begging, so a dog is the next best thing.

Is there anyone who works with the homeless charities that can give any insight to this? My feeling is that if you can’t take care of yourself, you shouldn’t have responsibility for another living creature.

These people are professional beggers. They are a nuisance, not homeless either.
I used to have one who played his penny whistle next to my stall and it drove customers away. He was dressed in raggedy clothes and looked unkempt.
Come six o'clock, he'd return nicely attired in his 4 wheel drive luxury car to drink in the nearby pub. He lived in a rather lovely detached home too. He had zero reason to beg and I know he's not typical of most beggers.
A large homeless charity, who has branches in the uk and the US,specifically asks that people don't give money to beggers. In my home town, there is accommodation for all rough sleepers. Some do ask for a contribution ( studios with shared facilities ) but mostly a bed, hot food and plenty of it are free.