Is rudeness subjective?

[Beeholdern]

I seem to attract weird men when I’m out and about.

I'm 50-odd, and odd, sturdy, I don't smile much and I'm socially awkward.

I tend to wear airpods a lot to minimise engagement with people.

But honestly I just seen to attract older men who want to small talk.

On Saturday I was wearing an England Rugby jersey, which I now know was a mistake, as it was inviting comment. And 3 separate men mentioned just dross about the team.

My stock response is either some sort of "ahh, hmm" and move on or "ahha, I'm just here to shop/browse/eat/chat with a friend". Not particularly dismissively, but clearly not entering into conversation.

This happens frequently, not to do with team allegiances - they'll just talk to me, I don't encourage.

A few times people have said "no need to be rude, I'm just chatting to you".

But I don't see it as rude; just closing down unwanted tedium.

Is rudeness subjective?

Yabu - you're rude for not giving strangers your time and small talk

Yanbu - it's not rude to not encourage conversations

One man's rude is another man's norm?

Oh and I know this can be regional - I'm central Midlands so no real North vs South expectation of friendliness (or not) here.

Of course rudeness is subjective. Some people (often but not always men) think any stranger who doesn’t let them talk at them interminably is rude. See also men who randomly shout aggressive ‘greetings’ at you in the street and then call you a bitch for not smiling / responding / stopping for a chat.

You were being perfectly reasonable in your responses IMO.

It can be. You don't owe anyone conversation, or your time, as such. We (women) are usually good at knowing a genuine man, rather than a older man just wanting an excuse to chat to a younger woman.

Two different questions. Yes rudeness is subjective as it’s clearly cultural and different in different societies/groups.

No, you were not being rude in your response to these men. You were polite but just not interested, which is absolutely your right.

I don't think it's rude to shut down conversation you don't want to have with a stranger. I do think rudeness is subjective though, my mam would think it the height of rudeness to dismiss someone trying to have a chat, I consider it normal.

I must put out some serious "fuck off" vibes though because this never happens to me, even on days I would be open to a chinwag lmao

I have been known to say, "Excuse me, have we been introduced?"
All that reading of 19th century novels does come in useful.

I think it’s rude that random men approach expecting engagement in their inane conversation. Why do they think that women are remotely interested in what they have to say!

I dont consider that I owe randoms anything and that goes for neighbours. I do exchange pleasantries with some people who come to my door, like the Tesco delivery man or the postie. However they are doing me a service so there is an excuse for the interaction. Strangers who knock on my door without an appointment are 99.9% likely to get ignored. I no longer walk around in public because of mobility issues. When I did I often took little account of others. Im a great believer in minding my own business.

I don't agree with this. Obviously OP doesn't have to talk to them if she doesn't want to, and has every right to shut down the chatter, that's fine.

But I don't consider a person (a man or a woman) striking a conversation is being rude, as long as they're well mannered, polite and don't kick off if you don't want to engage.

I'm going to take this wider. YANBU, OP, and rudeness is often subjective. Not always: some things are rude by any standard. Road ragers, for example.

I think people are becoming ruder to others while taking offence too easily - so calling everyone else rude, yet being none too polite themselves. These may not always be the same people, I realise, I don't keep track of everybody!

In the many current discussions about low-level sniping, bullying, etc on Mumsnet, there are some rather strange complaints.
~ If you comment on a thread full of parents commiserating on the trials of having children, saying how much you adore your little bundle of joy, you should expect gales of laughter. You aren't entitled to gushing agreement from worn-out mums, who are entitled to vent amongst themselves.
~ If people are talking about their grandmothers, you aren't entitled to an apology or a fucking trigger warning because your gran died last week.
~ It is not rude to disagree with you on any subject. If someone says they think your opinion's stupid, or what you did was stupid, that's not rude.
~ If they say you are stupid, that's rude. But you might want to ask them how so, before getting your knickers in a twist.

There used to be lively discussions on here about PARD - polite and reasonable debate. It needs to come back; people need to take a moment to think whether exploding is the most useful thing they could do right now. Hint: it very rarely is.

I think we need to do a secret experiment where a man and a separate woman go out in public wearing a sport shirt or a band t-shirt and count how many random men strangers engage in conversation with them both . Also, their reactions when either of them politely ignore these interactions 🤔 it'd be totally predictable interesting I reckon.

I somehow give out vibes to any nutter in the area that I'm up for a chat😅 drives me insane but sometimes I think a lot of people are so lonely that a 2 minute chat isn't harming anyone so why not🤷 though OP you were not rude, especially when it's a blatant chat up

Your last sentence sums it up lovely in most cases I find.

I know right. No woman has to put up with being hit on especially when they aren't interested and haven't given any kind of signal that they are. I'd love to know what it is that makes these men do it, are they interpreting something completely wrong or just so egotistical that they think any woman would be glad of their attempt 🤔

Yes of course no man should ever speak to a woman unless she has a male chaperone who can provide permission, any man doing so should pull up his pantaloons and shuffle away

How is making conversation being hit on, are women that amazing every single man cant speak to them withougt having an ulterior motive, with thinking like this I feel sorry for any male who you know who cant speak to a women without express permission incase she thinks he wants a shag

It's the pretence that it's just friendly when it's clearly not. There's a bloke standing right there 🫴 why don't you try making friends with him?

Yeah funny that isn't it🤨

I will talk to most people and engage in chitchat. I worked with the general public all my life. Some people don’t speak to anyone for weeks and weeks if I can engage in chitchat I will.

I don’t seek it out but I’m not ignorant to another human beings attempt to engage if it is not weird or aggressive.

I also don’t presume I am being hit on all the time either. I’m not a narcissist.

It’s difficult because it’s something you possibly have to do with men just in case but then I think I love nails so if I said to a girl oh my god i love that colour and she went ‘hmm’ and I said for example’I usually try to wear reds this time of the year’ and she gave your ‘I’m sorry I’m trying to talk to my friends’ or the like, I think I’d possibly feel a bit caught off guard because one more hmmm and or a oh thanks and you getting back to your friend/ food etc would have shut me up/ told me ah she doesn’t want conversation. But with a man I THINK it’s different? Because you have to let them explicitly know you don’t want their attention in case? Or maybe we assume it is and it’s not?!

I come from a rural area where you say good morning to everyone you meet, almost with the tip of the hat. Your behavior would be seen as v rude. And I don't think that grunting dismissively at others makes for a nice society - there are countless threads on here that talk about declining feel of society since COVID, rude angry shoppers etc. it's actually quite nice to say hello to someone you don't know and not be considered to be a sex pest or busybody.

But I get unwanted attention from men is difficult because of the power imbalance. It's not simple.

Some people do seem to attract comments for some reason. My Dsis attracts bonkers older people....

If you have a more masculine vibe re clothes there are lots of tshirts available online that might help. DH's favourite says "You read my t-shirt. That's enough social interaction for one day."

I definitely agree that rudeness is subjective.

As to whether you are rude? Well firstly, it's interesting you seem to attract so much attention. Do you tend to go to places where single people are more likely to go and or where it would be expected to be more social? I think the places you pick are key too.

Ultimately, even if you get a lot of attention that you don't want, it would be quite pleasant to not look miserable and pestered. A quick smile, kind eyes, a word or too and then explaining you're not interesting in socialising would be nice, but you don't have to.

It’s this. Men have been socialised to believe they can do this and women socialised to not object. So you are doibg something different than they’ve been modelled and if they are a bit thick they won’t understand . Keep doing it op, but it will take a long time to change it, it’s ingrained. It’s a certain type of man isn’t it though, probably one who makes “funny” comments to random people .

an I right in assuming “women don’t owe you pretty” has passed you by?

yes op don’t look miserable, men don’t like that. And what are we here for if not to look pleasing. Give us a smile love .