To think most modern dating advice is just emotional manipulation with a pretty bow?

[HonestRiskFinch]

“Play hard to get,” “mirror his energy”, “don’t text first.” It’s all strategy and ego management, not connection. AIBU to think honesty and directness are now seen as weakness?

It’s not PC but most men, if they’re interested & worth having, will not leave you in any doubt about it.

This sort of advice is far from modern- it’s been around for decades (and probably much longer than that!) I remember The Rules in the 90s and it was seen as quite old fashioned then.

It isn’t intended to be successful dating advice, is the crux of it. It’s intended to ensure that women are dating unsuccessfully, because women who are happy and stable and confident in themselves aren’t likely to be spending money on / subscribing to / creating a following for the self-help books, coaches, influencers, blogs and whatever which are giving this advice. It’s the kind of advice which rarely works and which creates instability, second-guessing, drama, unhappiness, self-doubt, poor self-esteem - which is excellent for those who make money out of all of this.

What do you mean by ‘honesty & directness’ are now seen as a ‘weakness’?

Is that modern dating advice? Sounds like claptrap from The Rules to me, which is at least 30 years out of date...

Yeah where are you getting this dating advice? Some AI written blog that got its info from 1994? Why are you reading dating advice? The only dating advice you need is to be yourself and not play these sort of silly games and then you won’t attract a game player or a liar.

I loathe all that nonsense. It’s juvenile and boring. If you like someone just tell them.

That’s what I felt like dating was until I met my DH and realised that’s not what to do to form a secure relationship. He was upfront from the start so gave me confidence to do the same. We both liked each other so didn’t play games (he definitely didn’t -though I did a little at the start but he gave me the confidence to realise I didn’t need to play them)

I agree with pp, a man will let you know if he really likes you and he’s worth having. I could not be arsed with games.

That’s what I felt like dating was until I met my DH and realised that’s not what to do to form a secure relationship.

Exactly. You can turn “nothing at all” into “nothing much” by playing silly games. You can’t actually build a lasting relationship that way though.

Oh it’s awful, I was just dumped over text by a 46 year old grown man after two months of me being the most amazing person but he then realised he wasn’t ready for commitment, it’s awful

I was going to mention The Rules. I skimmed through the book when it came out because a friend lent it to me but didn't like it.

Can't people think for themselves?

There was also Men are From Mars Women Are From Venus which was full of the same crap. Was that the 80s? Very outdated anyway.

I think the trouble is that women are socialised (generally speaking) to be kind and empathic particularly to men. But when you add that to a dating scenario it means you end up being super kind and forgiving to someone whose actions haven’t proven them worthy of that yet. It’s no harm to remind women of that and that they can hold back a bit and watch and wait. It’s not manipulation to not give your whole self to someone who may have different motives to you. Particularly in an OLD situation where you really have no context at all for a man. You don’t know his friends, family, exes, how he behaves in different situations. That type of dating advice needs spelling out because it really goes against your (socialised) nature, its much easier to give them the benefit of the doubt IME (can you tell I’ve been there got the t-shirt 🤦🏻‍♀️🤪).

There's always been terrible dating advice out there.

I ignored all the advice and early on with DH was asking about long term aims and asperiations so knew if we were long term compatable.

There a scene in west wing where CJ and her reporter boy friend are having a conversation - and he wants a conversation about long term plans because she looking at job offers round the workd - and she like I stuck at this it's either too early or too late for this thing in every relationship - and he like I'm all in have been for a while lets just have the conversation. I'm with the BF have the conversation - or many of them but then I come under ND umbrella.

I'm amazed at number of people who drift into things - and then get upset when they fianlly have conversations other persons on completely different page and always was - and then waste time before or after game playing.

I’m mid 40s and it’s the exact same shit women were told when I was younger. I thought it was stupid mind games back then.

Absolutely..

People knock ‘The Rules’ but there’s much in there that helps you establish firm boundaries & prevent you falling ‘too fast, too soon ‘ if you’re the type that does.

And now you’re free to find someone who is as ready for commitment as you are. Im sorry you had your time wasted but he’ll have done you a favour and it’s better to find this out two months in than two years in. If he can’t be arsed to tell you how he feels to your face, imagine how bad it would be sharing a life with him.

Something to help women with poor self esteem would have been more useful than mind games.

I don’t think the book, when I read it, was all about mind games. It’s a manual re: building self esteem in part. Don’t be treated badly.

Three name poster!

I hate to say this but it's probably more that he realised he wasn't ready for commitment with you...

It was many, many years ago that I read it and it wasn't what I needed. I'm a long way beyond that now.

Its amazing how many fully grown up adult males can’t communicate. Literally if your middle aged by that point in life if you can’t have mature direct comms your emotionally immature and this does not make a good partner because when you have to navigate big decisions or plans as a couple he will just avoid confronting them. You just saved yourself a lot of frustration may not seem like it now but only the best ones make it x

I love that scene with CJ and Danny. That’s how grown ups should have relationships. As people have said, after a while you’re in or you’re out. Don’t waste your time being strung along.