As Rachel Reeves struggles to balance the books, the Royal Family should forgo a £46 million increase in their funding. AIBU?

[User198174]

Due to an increase in Crown Estate profits, the government is set to increase its grant to the Royal Family from £ 86.3 million to £132.1 million.
As the Royal Family appear to be getting by at present on an £86.3 million grant, AIBU to say that they should share in the pain of the national squeeze on finances?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy5lzq94gqo.amp

Sorry I see someone upthread has explained

Yes a lot of deliberate confusion surrounding this issue . You see it when a royalist says ‘ the king gives us money from the crown estates’ . Swallowed it hook line and sinker

Smoke and mirrors is a great description.

Some people are so invested in maintaining the status quo, in spite of no obvious benefit to them, other than the soap opera aspect of the royals.

I have to turn the TV over when any of them are on. Turns my stomach. A family with such vast wealth in the same country with over 2000 foodbanks.

.

@Ukisgaslit this site also doesn't suggest that we own it https://www.thecrownestate.co.uk/about-us/our-history

So I still don't see in what way "we" own it.

I agree though that it's all smoke and mirrors.

Yes, it just seems so wrong and immoral.

There is a debate somewhere about whether or not they (the Crown estates) were George III's to surrender in 1760.

Not only that, they should pay the inheritance tax they’ve been dodging, and give up a couple of the many large properties they own to be converted into flats. They can pay for the conversion too.

They appear to own so many properties and estates. It would make sense for them to move into one or other of them. Buck and Kensington Palaces could be handed over to the nation as galleries and museums. Perhaps the living quarters could be repurposed as accommodation for MPs, thereby putting an end to the practice of MPs receiving subsidised 2nd homes.

This is an interesting thread. I think the issue is more that some people don't like the way that the contract was drawn up - under that contract the RF get a proportion of the profits of the Crown Estates with the rest going to the Treasury. I am not convinced that a contract can just be torn up for political reasons - it would set a terrible precedent.

That is an interesting point. However, governments can and do tear up contracts. The UK government is terminating some train company contracts early. The Scottish government terminated parking contracts with private companies in most of its hospital car parks, so that visitors and staff could have free parking.

More than a decade!

Andrew first met Epstein 26 years ago. And his Trade envoy role was from 2001 until he was sacked.

It warms my cockles to think some of my hard-earned cash goes towards keeping the King's toilet seated warmed.

I can't afford to continue swimming lessons for my child, but at least the royal buttocks won't be chilly tonight. 🍑

A take from elsewhere...

Some quick clarifications about how the UK royals are funded by the public:

1. The UK Crown Estates are not the UK royal family's private property, and the royal family are not responsible for any amount of money the Estates bring into the treasury. The monarch is a position in the UK state that the UK owns the Crown Estates through, a position that would be abolished in a republic, leading to the Crown Estates being directly owned by the republican state.
2. The Crown Estates have always been public property and the revenue they raise is public revenue. When George III gave up his control over the Crown Estates in the 18th century, they were not his private property. The current royals are also equally not responsible for producing the profits, either.
3. The Sovereign Grant is not an exchange of money. It is a grant that is loosely tied to the Crown Estate profits and is used for their expenses, like staffing costs and also endless private jet and helicopter flights. If the profits of the Crown Estates went down to zero, the royals would still get the full amount of the Sovereign Grant again, regardless. It can only go up or stay the same.
4. The Duchies of Lancaster and Cornwall that gave Elizabeth and Charles (and now William) their private income of approximately £25 millions/year (each) are also public property.
5. The total cost of the monarchy is currently £350-450million/year, after including the Sovereign Grant, their £150 million/year security, and their Duchy incomes, and misc. costs.

Fascinating that the estimated figure is between £350 and 450 million. What’s £100 million here or there between monarchs and grateful subjects? It’s so, so opaque.

For the benefit of the nation, don’t you know?

@vellichoria

As pointed out above - it was George 111 I think who was bankrupt and needed the government of the day to bail him out. Though whether this land was properly his to barter with is another question

@CruCru
Do you realise that the current arrangement was set up by George Osbourne and David Cameron?
Before this change all proceeds from the ‘Crown estate’ went to the treasury. The Windsors got an annually debated hand out called the Civil list. The Windsors hated that debate and had been pressing successive governments to change to the current system without success . Until Cameron’s government came along . They also made sure that the annual debate over Windsor finances was stopped .

Oh they also made sure that whatever the state of the finances of the country or the crown estate- the cut going to the Windsors could never go down.

Given that Charles is in favour of a slimmed-down monarchy, perhaps the government could explore returning to à much-reduced civil list.

Upon further consideration, perhaps a couple of the estates could be used to create one of the many new housing estates needed.

One family benefitting - every so often, when they face visiting that one of many estates - from a land area that could house thousands is pretty shit - but that’s what the RF are all about, along with all the rest of Britain’s idle landowning aristos.

I like your idea of creating a dedicated set of housing for MPs too op.

Edited - I meant to quote the ops response, not mine!

Slimmed down monarchy means they decide to make do without champers at 11am at our expense, and maybe bung us a few quid from their various offshore accounts instead?

I’m not fussed about the rest of them but the King, as Head of State, is
a consistent and non political representative for the United Kingdom. He can’t be bought off or bribed, and he isn’t likely to be swayed by promises of titles, riches or political favour. It’s not a perfect system but it works, the Monarch
is able to represent our nation at home and overseas without having allegiance to any political party. I see it as a valuable asset and I’m not sure what better system could replace it while still retaining all of the above.

Most Heads of State are presidents, not the executive kind like messrs Trump and Macron but pure figureheads, apolitical like you say and most of them do a good job representing their countries and whatever else they are constitutionally tasked with doing.

I don't know of any of them who have family members living in multi bed mansions, being paid for cutting a ribbon here and there and travelling abroad for their pet projects, and I doubt any of them cost their countries half a billion a year either.

The RF is a racket, an historical thing, but a total racket just the same.

But pays for horse drawn carriages and luxury 4x4 for the RF. Not just the immediate ones, but all the cling on's too.
The monarchy has no place anymore.

That’s a good argument for monarchy per se, but it doesn’t explain why we have the most profligate monarchy in Europe.

A head of state (hereditary or elected), salaried in line with the PM and provided with an official residence for the purposes of entertaining could do the job, hopefully without corruption.

Also, the idea that members of the monarchy will be upstanding and incorruptible if we give them enough money is shown to be hopelessly idealistic by the (piss artist) formerly known as Prince Andrew.