AIBU - inheritance sad story

[whattodo1113]

I’m going to break this down as easily as possible.

my grandad who is now 86 had 5 children. (The eldest is my mum)
he split up with my grandma when the children were young.
all the children are now obviously grown up in their 60s.
all of them have wife’s / husbands and their own children. They ALL live good lives and have done well for themselves are by NO means hard up.

my grandad has worked hard all his life and paid his house off etc and was alone for a long long time with not much quality of life. He then met someone and married her and had a daughter later on in life when he was late 50s. This child is grown up now too. He is still with his wife now and has been for 25 years ish. Sorry my numbers aren’t the best and it’s not really relevant.

the whole family welcomed wife and the new child and I must say she’s always been lovely she’s a lovely woman. The daughter they had I loved and still do very much. My grandad has always been a good grandad to us. I have fond memories with him and I love him loads.

so here’s the crunch….
before he met his wife he put his house in the 2 eldest children’s names (my mum included) his train of thought was if anything happened to him or he got ill etc they’d have that house and all those things and he didn’t want it to end up in a charity or whatever I don’t know.

3 years ago as he’s getting very old now he asked them to sign the house back to him as his wife has lived there with him 25 years now and it’s her HOME and their daughter lives there too. She works part time. He’s obviously planning not being here anymore
they have refused him the house and have said when he dies she can stay for 2 years to get on her feet and find somewhere then they will sell it and split the money between the 5 children.

there argument is he left when they were kids and this new child got more of him than they did growing up.
I personally think this is very revengeful of my mum and greedy and not morally right? My grandad is very depressed and cries and I just hate that this is how the end of his life looks. He said his wife has been there the most for him and loved and looked after him and she’s gonna be left in a mess when he goes and she’s doesn’t deserve it. Which I agree.

I’ve told my mum it’s his house. He paid for it. He worked for it. Give it him back. Am I being soft ?? What do you think?? I just personally feel disapointed in them.
may I add nobody visited him often or cared to see him much but they want his house and money?

they’ve all said wife will have his pension that’s enough. Which is about 500 a month I think.

I just can’t stop thinking about him and I’m the only one in the family who has said how he’s being treated is discusting. They think he’s cruel taking the house back but at the end of the day he bought the house and his life situations have changed now and all the kids are so well off with their own businesses etc they don’t NEED it. Xxx

Morally, yes of course your grandfather's wife should inherit, and your Mum and her sibling should sign the house back over to him

No 'of course' about it, imo. Unless they coerced him to sign the house over, which seems highly unlikely given he wasn't old at the time, I don't see why they should hand it back.

I can't go along with so many posts here that differentiate between a legal and moral argument. The grandfather gave the house away. That means it isn't his anymore, and he has no more right to decide what happens to it beyond his right to live in it up until his death. All financial planning actions have pros and cons.

Presumably the pros here were to mitigate IHT and to ensure the local authority couldn't use his home to finance care costs in the future. The downside of this is that he gives up control of the asset irrevocably. My only sympathy with the grandfather is that the solicitor who drafted this up for him perhaps didn't properly outline the terms and implications. But then again, perhaps he chose to ignore this seeing only the multiple thousands of IHT and/or care fees he'd avoid.

Why?

This is why you don't gift your home to your kids to avoid inheritance tax. He could easily have left it to them in a will (which he could have changed). I do think your mum and uncle are being really greedy though. At least they could agree that she would have half the value of the home (on the basis that half the home belonged to their late mum and the other half to their dad) so that his wife will have somewhere to live.

When CGT has been removed from the proceeds of the same there's nothing to stop the family splitting the remains with his wife and daughter.It should provide them with some sort of buffer or a part payment towards a house deposit.

I can see both sides your dad who left you deciding to disinherit you in favour of his more recent wife and adult child is quite painful. No wonder they’re being snitty.

and then when she dies only her child or grandchildren would inherit. It’s not very nice.

well yes I gave you a gift but I’ve got new favourites now so give it back…

This is disgusting your mother should be ashamed of herself

He gifted the kids his house. I wouldn't gift it back. I'd sit down and have a discussion with everyone and try to come to a formal arrangement everyone is happy with to define what happens in the event of his death.

I bet the new wife didn't know he didn't own the house. If everything apart from the legal title stayed the same, why would she know.

But has this been done legally? I don't know.

What for? For taking some security after becoming a single mother to five children in the 1960s? For prioritising herself and her family over her ex's wife and his child? For thinking their security is his and her responsibility, they've had over 20 years to sort it while living rent free and it's not on her to make sacrifices for these people?

I second the advice from a professional on page 1, get off Mumsnet and seek professional advice from a solicitor.

Can you elaborate on this? I'm genuinely interested to hear why you think the recipient of a gift made a quarter of a century ago, should return said gift, reducing her wealth in retirement and potentially expose herself to ruinous taxation due to the a change in the givers wishes, again, a quarter of a century down the line?

'abandoned' is a synonym for 'left'.. I don't think anyone is saying he never saw them again, but there is obviously some bad feeling from his children about the circumstances of their upbringing, which OP would have no first hand experience of, so it seems to fit that she is the only one that is siding with her grandfather on this situation.. she is only really looking at it from his point of view and that shows in her OP.

I wouldn't use the term 'abandoned' myself, based on OPs posts, but it's right there in her post that he 'left' them, make of that what you will I suppose.

What advice? All of this has absolutely NOTHING to do with OP, it is between her grandfather and her mother (and 1 other sibling).

Getting legal advice and interfering in a situation she knows absolutely nothing about is just odd.

I don’t think this is a sad story at all. I think DM & sibling are very reasonable and they only need to share proceeds of the sale with the youngest sibling.

I would not be guilted by any of it frankly. trying to disinherit 5 of your kids and passing it off as a sob story. Pull the other one.

You need to remember that Grandchildren often see their Grandparents very differently to how their children see them. Often they are abusive and neglectful with their children and then go on to become wonderful grandparents.

Personally, I wouldn't be giving back the house because apart from anything else, I'd feel as if I was taking money from my own children who would inherit from me. I do think it would be morally wrong for his daughter not to have a share so I'd have to have a good think about how I'd manage that.

Presumably the youngest daughter will inherit from her mother, who will also inherit her husband’s assets, so that would seem to square things up for her?

She’s a young adult still living at home but should be well set-up to move out and live independently (taking care of her mother if needed/desirable)

I suspect (but CBA doing the maths) that some of them were under 18 when the transfer happened.

If the house was in lieu of maintenance then so be it.

The house was gifted to avoid paying tax on it. 25 years or so ago loads of people did it, my parents included. we told them not to because it was trying to evade tax and they didnt listen. they are both still alive. when they go I anticipate the shit is really going to hit the fan because only half of their children are on the deeds and the other half arent plus some of the children still think this is legal and dont understand all the taxes that are going to be payable. Its a shit show and its the reason why NO ONE should do anything with their estate or their possessions without taking legal, independent advice. My parents read half a story in a magazine and just went and did it. No legal training nothing. I suspect the OPs dad did the same. he wanted something to pass on not to have it sold to pay for care costs in the future and its come back now to bite him on the bum. How many other people on this thread have parents that have done similar shenanigans I wonder and they wont know about it until their parents die?

Your grandfather is awful. Leaving 5 children, ineptly arranging his home ownership in a bid to avoid IHT, and now to attempt to claw back something he'd given away over 25 years ago. What a mess he's created.

Your mum and uncle cannot give it back. It would land them with a hefty CGT bill. Imagine being so selfish that not only do you want to disinherit your older children, you expect them to pay for that privilege themselves.

I hear where you are coming from OP.
Very difficult situation and it seems harsh that his wife will only be able to stay in her home for 2 years after gd passes.
Ultimately, this is a moral situation and I believe your gd's wishes should be respected.

Unfair and harsh

Exactly. All the children are all now adults. They should all have been treated equally but he messed up and never fixed it.

Why should his original children give back a gift because he has a new child: I definitely think the child from the second marriage has written this post.

OP says he’s tried to get it back, so presumably he’s been told by a solicitor that he doesn’t have a legal leg to stand on.

The moral arguments about what your mother and her sibling should or shouldn’t do are irrelevant. Their, of free and healthy mind, made a choice he now regrets. As upset about it as he may now be, that’s on him.

Personally OP, I wouldn’t get involved.