AIBU - inheritance sad story

[whattodo1113]

I’m going to break this down as easily as possible.

my grandad who is now 86 had 5 children. (The eldest is my mum)
he split up with my grandma when the children were young.
all the children are now obviously grown up in their 60s.
all of them have wife’s / husbands and their own children. They ALL live good lives and have done well for themselves are by NO means hard up.

my grandad has worked hard all his life and paid his house off etc and was alone for a long long time with not much quality of life. He then met someone and married her and had a daughter later on in life when he was late 50s. This child is grown up now too. He is still with his wife now and has been for 25 years ish. Sorry my numbers aren’t the best and it’s not really relevant.

the whole family welcomed wife and the new child and I must say she’s always been lovely she’s a lovely woman. The daughter they had I loved and still do very much. My grandad has always been a good grandad to us. I have fond memories with him and I love him loads.

so here’s the crunch….
before he met his wife he put his house in the 2 eldest children’s names (my mum included) his train of thought was if anything happened to him or he got ill etc they’d have that house and all those things and he didn’t want it to end up in a charity or whatever I don’t know.

3 years ago as he’s getting very old now he asked them to sign the house back to him as his wife has lived there with him 25 years now and it’s her HOME and their daughter lives there too. She works part time. He’s obviously planning not being here anymore
they have refused him the house and have said when he dies she can stay for 2 years to get on her feet and find somewhere then they will sell it and split the money between the 5 children.

there argument is he left when they were kids and this new child got more of him than they did growing up.
I personally think this is very revengeful of my mum and greedy and not morally right? My grandad is very depressed and cries and I just hate that this is how the end of his life looks. He said his wife has been there the most for him and loved and looked after him and she’s gonna be left in a mess when he goes and she’s doesn’t deserve it. Which I agree.

I’ve told my mum it’s his house. He paid for it. He worked for it. Give it him back. Am I being soft ?? What do you think?? I just personally feel disapointed in them.
may I add nobody visited him often or cared to see him much but they want his house and money?

they’ve all said wife will have his pension that’s enough. Which is about 500 a month I think.

I just can’t stop thinking about him and I’m the only one in the family who has said how he’s being treated is discusting. They think he’s cruel taking the house back but at the end of the day he bought the house and his life situations have changed now and all the kids are so well off with their own businesses etc they don’t NEED it. Xxx

I wouldn't sign the house back over to him either. For one thing there would be capital gains tax implications for your mum and her sibling.

This man ups and leaves his wife and young kids. Then in later life gifts them the house (but only two of them for some reason.) Obviously this was done to avoid care home fees and other costs, at least in part. So he wanted his cake and to eat it.

Now he wants to take his gift back because the arrangement doesn't suit him anymore. That's not how gifts work and that's before you factor in that it would cost your mum and the other owner if they were to just sign it back over to him.

It is a sad story but it isn't your grandad that I feel sorry for.

Is this realistic though? Presumably granddad has been retired the whole time since transferring the property on his £500 a month pension. So the earning was pretty much all on her- bills, maintenance and bringing up the child.

Its totally irrelevant to the current situation. Why would OP go into that detail.

OP has his wife and DD known all these years that the house was not the “family home” but that it legally belonged to others? Because I hate to say it, but its ridiculous to live under such circumstances and do nothing about it until now. Your Grandad has had years to sort this out and has left it until late in the day at an already strssful time. It is aad to hear he is crying over this bit one wonders why he didnt think to look after his wife and DDs needs long before now?

I'm with your mum here. DGM got dumped in the 60s with 5 kids (i bet GF didnt give her any equity in any house they had then!), childcare was more tricky , jobs for women much lower paid then and I doubt he paid much maintenance. Is it the same house that he bought with your GM? It sounds like he didn't do any parenting either.

I do think your mum should include the half sister in the split, and I might actually include the new wife as well so 1/7 for everyone seems fairest. Especially as she's in her 50s still with many working years ahead.

Agreed.

Would family agree to wife having her living day in the house. Then it goes to the 6 siblings inc half sibling

Problem is they cannot just give the house back. There would be tax to pay at a minimum.

Clearly there is also emotions here. They see the house as paying them back for when he walked out on them. He freely has it to them he doesn’t own a home and hasn’t for over 25 years. It’s kinda odd that his asked for it back because he shouldn’t have seen it as still his.

Maybe the probing needs to be more on is the current wife trying to coerce him into this.

Defend him? Where did I do that?

I’m questioning the morality of leaving the wife homeless….

If he was very impoverished, it makes no sense whatsoever to transfer ownership of his home to others. Also, the second wife was younger and presumably worked some of the 25 years, so between them they had at least some earning potential to at least somehow save more money than nothing? I mean I don't work part-time and I'm a single parent, but that's how it is if I want to support my children in the future, that's one of the reasons I work f/t!

He had six kids, that's a lot of children and two wives and if you are going to do that, you need to have a bit more foresight and perhaps work longer and harder than others, not retire at 55 and have another entire family.

I'm not a legal expert. I suggest speaking to a solicitor. I don't know about rent as I've owned my own home since the age of 18. All I know is my husband had to sign something to state he has no rights to my property, something to do with the mortgage so it was a suggestion to see if there is anything similar.

Of course “so you 5 kids that your father abandoned….”

He made an error in judgement by gifting the house (presumably to avoid tax?) But he did that 25 YEARS AGO.

He he can't gift what hasn't been his for 25 years.

But that’s the point- it was the transfer of the property that was the stupid thing to do, not the retirement or lack of buying an alternative property.

It's too late, it has been gifted. It wasn't his home anymore the day he signed over the deeds. There is nothing he can do, it literally didnt beling to him for years. Bit unfair to want it to go to his youngest daughter instead of sharing ownership bewteen all his children. I can understand why they're reluctant, if they give it back there will be tax implications and they'll get nothing! Seems unfair theyll have to pay taxes on something that will be no longer theirs! Perhaps ask if they would be willing to allow his wife to live there after his death? That is essentially what your grandfather is worried about.

Detail is everything though.

I'm pretty sure if you asked the different parties involved to post on here you would get very different viewpoints of the situation.

And that is always the problem, having to make judgements in the face of (very) incomplete facts.

There is absolutely no suggestion in OPs post that the GF abandoned the family. A divorce is not an abandonment.

This is just speculation and entirely unhelpful to the OP.

This is complicated and you need a solicitor to advise.
Morally, I think I'm with the two recipients - the two eldest children. He signed the house over to them around 25 years ago. That's a very long time for them to get used to the idea that it's their property. I can see why they wouldn't want to reverse the decision now. (Although I'm baffled as to why he excluded the other three children.)
It does sound as though his original intent was to avoid care home fees and it's backfired spectacularly.
It's sad the children don't see much of him but there are often reasons for this so I wouldn't be too quick to judge.

Agree

It's nothing to do with ypu.

You don't understand the complex emotions involved.

I would leave it to your mum and butt out.

In an ideal world they would let his (eventual) widow live in the property until such a time as she dies or remarries (similar to a life tenant arrangement). Then sell and divide the proceeds between all of the children (half sibling included). However I imagine some or all will want to cash in their chips sooner, so will have no compunction about evicting her from her home.

He was extremely misguided to transfer the house to two of his children in the first place, absolutely nothing to prevent them selling and keeping the proceeds for themselves - which gives them the financial upper hand over their younger siblings.

I agree it’s not very fair on his wife and youngest daughter, but as the property won’t form part of his estate I don’t think they have any legal remedy.

Another non-empath!
How can this OP not want to think of how her own Mother felt as a child, when her ‘father’ abandoned her?

OP, you don’t know the damage he caused and also the implications of giving it back. He made his bed years ago. Now those choices are catching up with him.

from the OP

he split up with my grandma when the children were young.

there argument is he left when they were kids and this new child got more of him than they did growing up.

Why only leave it to two of the five original siblings I wonder? The three left out are surely at the mercy of your mother handing over any share when its sold.

I think he should have been paying proper market rent and your mother should have been doing all the things a landlord is obliged to do, gas and electric safety certificates, energy performance certificates amongst others. Otherwise as PP above have said, its not really been gifted and IHT gains will apply, probably CGT too, when its sold.

The second wife might outlive OP's mother and siblings as she's probably younger than some of them. Why should they give her lifelong tenancy? They might never see any of the money on a house that two of them have owned for years.

Having been probably badly affected by his leaving them when they were young, they've now to sacrifice to benefit his second family?