AIBU - inheritance sad story

[whattodo1113]

I’m going to break this down as easily as possible.

my grandad who is now 86 had 5 children. (The eldest is my mum)
he split up with my grandma when the children were young.
all the children are now obviously grown up in their 60s.
all of them have wife’s / husbands and their own children. They ALL live good lives and have done well for themselves are by NO means hard up.

my grandad has worked hard all his life and paid his house off etc and was alone for a long long time with not much quality of life. He then met someone and married her and had a daughter later on in life when he was late 50s. This child is grown up now too. He is still with his wife now and has been for 25 years ish. Sorry my numbers aren’t the best and it’s not really relevant.

the whole family welcomed wife and the new child and I must say she’s always been lovely she’s a lovely woman. The daughter they had I loved and still do very much. My grandad has always been a good grandad to us. I have fond memories with him and I love him loads.

so here’s the crunch….
before he met his wife he put his house in the 2 eldest children’s names (my mum included) his train of thought was if anything happened to him or he got ill etc they’d have that house and all those things and he didn’t want it to end up in a charity or whatever I don’t know.

3 years ago as he’s getting very old now he asked them to sign the house back to him as his wife has lived there with him 25 years now and it’s her HOME and their daughter lives there too. She works part time. He’s obviously planning not being here anymore
they have refused him the house and have said when he dies she can stay for 2 years to get on her feet and find somewhere then they will sell it and split the money between the 5 children.

there argument is he left when they were kids and this new child got more of him than they did growing up.
I personally think this is very revengeful of my mum and greedy and not morally right? My grandad is very depressed and cries and I just hate that this is how the end of his life looks. He said his wife has been there the most for him and loved and looked after him and she’s gonna be left in a mess when he goes and she’s doesn’t deserve it. Which I agree.

I’ve told my mum it’s his house. He paid for it. He worked for it. Give it him back. Am I being soft ?? What do you think?? I just personally feel disapointed in them.
may I add nobody visited him often or cared to see him much but they want his house and money?

they’ve all said wife will have his pension that’s enough. Which is about 500 a month I think.

I just can’t stop thinking about him and I’m the only one in the family who has said how he’s being treated is discusting. They think he’s cruel taking the house back but at the end of the day he bought the house and his life situations have changed now and all the kids are so well off with their own businesses etc they don’t NEED it. Xxx

It’s a sad tale but it was a bit silly of him to sign it over to them. I can’t imagine any solicitor recommended he do this.

That’s the law. It demonstrates that you don’t retain a beneficial interest.

Gosh there are some delightful people out there, grandad was only trying to leave what he had earned to his children and I I don’t blame him, it’s not illegal. How I see it is that grandad signed the house over to the two eldest children to avoid inheritance tax. Seven years have passed so as long as he has been paying rent no inheritance tax is due. If not then if the value is above the threshold IHT will be due. Legally the two eldest own it and can do what they want with it, if grandad wants it back then CGT will be due even if they give it back, might be cheaper to sell it back to him and pay stamp duty as that is a lower rate than CGT. That way the eldest two get the cash (which morally should be split between all the children) and the new wife gets the house. Or the new wife could be made a life tenant and when she dies the house could be sold and the proceeds split between the children. I think it was done with the best intentions and he didn’t think he would find love again. Definitely get some tax advice!

@MorriseysMother you speak about him like he’s a jolly old benevolent chap, not a scummy father who walked out on his wife and 5 kids!
its laughable to bring morals into protecting him!

That's what my neighbours discovered when they tried to hand over their home to the two children. They'd have to pay market rent. They backed away

It’s not to protect him, he’ll be dead! It’s to make sure all his children benefit

He singed the house over, but circumstances have changed. His wife deserves a legal agreement that she keeps the house during her lifetime. It can then go to the others. But be prepared. People can be ruthless.

It doesn’t matter that the circumstances have changed, and what his wife may ‘deserve’ is irrelevant. It’s not his house, and he cannot force his daughters to either gift or sell it back to him.

Why does she? She married a man who didn’t own a home and she obviously did nothing to ensure she has any security of her own making throughout her entire life, and for decades she has neither had to pay rent or a mortgage. Just existing doesn’t entitle her to other people’s house.

This is exactly the reason people should not gift away assets they still want to control. It stopped being his house the moment he signed it over to his children. He has continued to live in the house due to the good graces of his kids. He has no right to live in it, demand to get it back or insist that the house or the sale proceeds thereof is passed to his wife. This is not unfair and he would have been advised of this point before transferring ownership. It's not unfair of your mum as it will cost her to transfer the house back both in terms of legals and tax. Why should she incur that cost for an asset that she will never see the benefit off?

Circumstances changed when his ex became a single mother to five kids, and when he chose to remarry and have another kid.

He signed the house over, his ex has had it for 25 years and can reasonably have included it in her financial planning. Neither he nor his wife has any right to the return, or any demands, of the house she has owned for longer than they've been married. Security for his second family is his responsibility, not his ex's.

I understand what you are saying but does that really matter in this situation? He left the mother ex wife high and dry (or maybe not) and by extension the children but I think he deserves to leave his house to who he wants. Could they let the 2nd wife stay there until she passes? They would still end up with the house, just not as soon?

I honestly can't believe posters saying he should be given the house back.

The adult children given the house years ago have had all of the responsibilities and obligations of ownership with zero benefit. They may well have paid higher stamp duty on their own homes because of this arrangement. You now think they should hand their inheritance (and their own children's in turn) back to their father and pay potentially tens of thousands or more in CGT for the privilege? To be nice? FFS.

He doesn’t have a house to leave to who he wants.

And if they get handed a huge IHT bill on his death? They should pay up thousands for the second wife to stay in the property they are responsible for and may never see a penny from in their lifetime?

How do you know what she deserves? She could be an awful person.

OP you're really only listening to one side here and you don't know the full details.

I would want to know what provision he made for his DC after he left their mother. It almost feels like he gifted the house out of guilt. He has since then had 25 years to consider his current wife and child and how to make provision for them. Has he been paying market rent? If not then what has he been doing with his money?

I think he has just realised that his actions will now mean that his current wife is going to be in a bad financial position. But that is not solely due to gifting the house. It also relates to the past 25 years. That's on him. He may be sad but he also needs to be realistic. I wonder how much his current wife knows about her position. If she is not aware that he does not own the house then she is the one I feel sorry for.

His poor decision making is extraordinary tbh. The law on this was clear when signed his house over, so he gave up his house to avoid IHT that will be owed anyway if he hasn’t legally been renting it from his daughters.

Now he’s decided he wants it back, which even if the daughters were inclined to acquiesce would end up costing them thousands in CGT.

According to OP he has looked into attempting to get it back legally, but what was his argument here? “I’ve realized, in trying to dodge the HMRC in one of the dumbest ways possible, that I’ve actually managed to fuck myself, my second wife, and our daughter. Now I want to make my kids give me my house back”? 🥴

I wonder what prompted this now. I also wonder if the wife actually knows about any of this, and he’s now panicking because she’s asked questions.

There’s nothing sad about this story. Your grandad foolishly signed over a huge asset and his roof over his head to other people and now he has to live with the consequences.

I think OP you’re being disingenuous about the ‘reasons’ he did it - unless there’s coercion, we all know that nobody of sound mind signs over a house unless there’s something big in it for them. Take a step back now and focus on your own life.

New wife must be at most of similar age to the older 4 kids and could be significantly younger. So there's a very realistic chance she dies after all of them. I'm not sure everyone who's suggesting this has fully understood the dates here. It's a lot to expect someone to risk potentially never realising an asset they might have planned their finances around.

Yep. Agree with all but according to many PPs it would be nice/the Right Thing To Do for the OP's mother to either fork out a fuck ton of cash now in GCT or later in IHT to effectively disinherit herself! The mind boggles.

Exactly!!!!

Sorry but it seems your Grandfather is reaping the rewards of investing in his new family at the cost of his other children. Inside your Mum may be a very sad little girl whose father left her. Perhaps you should think about whether she is still hurting?

Stay well out of this OP, you have no idea what has gone on in the past.

If your GF were a decent man he would have made provision for his second wife over the many intervening years, but somehow I have a strong suspicion he won't have. I only hope she knows what the position is.

Could have been to protect his assets from a second marriage but now he's changed focus with the passage of time.