Possible TW - do you see yourself choosing Assisted dying?

[Threefullskips]

I hope this isn't too dark, but I've been thinking a lot about the legal and moral discussions in changing the legislation around assisted dying. And however we feel about it, it will be happening. In the context of NHS strain (and failure) , 'the market' taking care of the needs of elderly and infirm now more than families, properly prices, war on the horizon, increasing economic precarity - in a decade or so, we will all know people who have chosen to die by assisted dying. Is it something you have thought about? I hate to admit it, but I suspect it will be how I choose to go. And it feels like a defeat somehow. I'm perfectly healthy right now! Just looking into possible futures. This is a huge cultural change that will define our century imo. Sorry if this is too dark but I have tried to warn in title, I feel it surely merits a bit of discussion. Not sure what the AIBU is - AIBU to think more than 50% of the population will die this way in 50 years maybe?

Yes.
I have a DNAR and have it written into my POA.
It had to go to the court of protection before it was issued.

Yes. 💯.
Especially if I was no longer capable of the basics. There is very little as cruel as dementia.

Yes. I am watching the progression of my parents' dementia and it's horrible. Since they both have it, it's almost certain I will go the same way. Apologies if this upsets anyone, but I hope I will die earlier from something else - that's why I have never given up smoking, in the hope it might eventually lead to a heart attack or cancer. My parents were OK till their mid-seventies so if I can die naturally by that age, it would be good. I have no children to worry about and my husband is older than I am so would likely die first in an all-things-being-equal situation. However, if my plan to die naturally doesn't work, I will be doing all I can to arrange an assisted death.

@Mydogisagentleman im very interested in that, didnt know that could be done. I’ve got an Advanced Refusal of Care in my records and am doing an LPA, but am cynical at best as to the chances of my dp or my son being able to fight the medical juggernaut once it gets going. Did you get a solicitor involved for the Court of Protection?

I have an advanced decision to refuse treatment in place already, have done since i was 40 (and i had it written up years before then but just never got around to getting the signature witnessed). I'm a paramedic and see far too much pointless suffering every day, where quantity of life is prioritised over quality, I'm not taking the risk. If i don't have the capacity to make my own choices then I'm not 'me' any more and will refuse all life extending interventions after a set period of time has past, if i do have capacity and i am suffering i will choose medical assistance in dying.

Yes. It was quite an abnormal request and was initially refused.
She made an appeal and I had a phone consultation because the COP decided that I was possibly being influenced by my DH who would not benefit it any way.
I don't want feeding tubes etc.

Having seen a man in his 90s who had had a written and properly recorded advanced refusal of treatment for several years including refusal of feeding tubes, with a tube up his nose because the condition was officially reversible, you were right to go as far as you did.

I personally haven’t refused any individual treatment- if the tube is needed to get painkillers into me, fine - but asks to be treated on a palliative basis only, including referral to actual palliative care, as soon as I lose capacity to decide for myself and my son reaches 25. Who knows if anyone will pay attention. I hope my rather naive dp, having seen what the last few years of my mum’s life have been like, does understand now.

I don’t think there is a good way to die (apart from assisted dying). Weirdly enough I’ve been through nursing 3 close relatives through terminal bowel cancer and it was so horrific I now wish I get dementia before anything like that - so the opposite to you! It’s just horrible all round isn’t it.

I would yes, I have lost people close to me with cancer and Parkinson’s and if that happened to me I would choose assisted dying

I have had the same cancer twice and it is expected to return again and be terminal. I fully support assisted dying. Even so, it’s just a choice that I want. When it comes to the dying time, it may be that it’s not needed because I’m not in pain, but I want that option. I think it Is right to only be available to those with fewer than six months to live - so cancer, Parkinson’s, etc, and you need to have capacity. Definitely not for dementia or mental illness.

My dad had a glioblastoma (brain tumour) i had several conversations throughout the course of his illness (less than a year) about his right to refuse treatment including antibiotics, and what his views on it were in as i was his LPoA. As it was he kept capacity right up until the end and was empowered enough to refuse a second course of antibiotics for a chest infection whilst in respite at the hospice. He died peacefully 2 days later. He never needed more than paracetamol for pain relief.

But, I'm an experienced HCP (paramedic) with previous time working in cancer services before the ambulance service, so knew the law, the system and the likely course his illness would take.

I think we need to invest time and money into talking therapies rather than treatments, so that people with terminal diagnosis and advancing age have all the information and the space to make the right decision for them, which may not be pursuing treatment. I think it would save vast amounts of money overall, since 80% of nhs budget is spent in patients in the last 12 months if life, many of whom don't want to keep going but feel powerless.

Yes if I need it I want to have access to it.

I would / will. As would my DH. I do not want to an a burden on my children. I don’t want to live with say dementia and them witness that decline day in / day out. I think it would be easier long term for them to deal with if it was a “quick” death and not a long drawn out decline. Whilst i wouldn’t know it at the time, i don’t want to live an “existence” with no quality of life either.

my mum died in her early 50s to cancer. Symotoms, diagnosis, chemo, death within a year. Watching how much she suffered (and she tried to “fight” but it was a terminal diagnosis) that in a way it was a relief when she died which sounds terrible but i knew she was no longer in pain and i no longer had to watch the suffering, knowing what was coming. My dad got 15 years longer & died of a heart attack - quicker overall, less suffering & less draw out but the outcome was the same. The same same grief over a death of a parent but at least with my dad we didn’t know what was coming and neither did he. So i don’t want to suffer and prolong issues for my kids and make them feel guilty for living their lives and trying to fit in caring for me.

my gran though is almost 96. She lives alone. She can go to the toilet herself and make her own food. She has family up and down (refuses carers) to visit. She goes to mass once a week and tesco once a week with my aunts. She’s now showing signs of losing her memory a bit / mixing people up but stilL fairy independent. If i can live like that thats different but i’d rather 20 years less if it wasn’t the same level of living personally.

we don’t let animals suffer so why in this day and age do we still let humans suffer? I’d have supported my parents to do it and if we can in the future i’d support my DH to do it and him me.

Absolutely yes. My wife (same-sex relationship) died from pancreatic cancer 6 years ago, she also had Parkinson’s. The actual moment of her death was peaceful and pain-free, but the build-up to dying (if that makes any sense) certainly wasn’t. I believe I am left with some kind of PTSD as a result of what I witnessed, and what I sometimes had to do to ensure her wishes, dignity and comfort were respected.

The NHS was on its knees then, and is even more so now. I would routinely have to advocate for her during appointments and hospital stays, and manage her increasingly complex medication regime. Her hospital stays were frankly the worst times - staffing shortages and an apparent inability for one department to communicate with another would often lead to confusing, contradictory information being given, and her pain relief/anti-nausea medication was rarely given on time.

If ever I am diagnosed with anything similar I will go at a time of my choosing. I don’t have someone to fight the system for me as I did for my wife, I would be terrified of not being heard or even listened to, and experiencing the kind of pain and terror that my wife frequently experienced in hospital. I do have adult children, but I would not want any of them to put their lives on hold, and to then live with the kinds of memories I do.

I think it’s sick and twisted how humans are supposed to just suffer with unbearable pain and suffering when they have capacity to say they want to end their life, so yes, I would choose assisted dying for myself. I have worsening long term illnesses, so it’s likely to be a reality for me one day.

I don’t think as many as 50% will choose it in the future though. Some people will choose to go on no matter what, and a lot of people are extremely lucky and go through their whole lives with no serious illnesses that would require assisted dying.

The downside to assisted dying though is because we are now living in a selfish individualistic society, I think a lot of people will put pressure on elderly/long term sick family to end their lives so that they aren’t a burden to them. Modern society is already quite cruel and resentful towards people will long term illness and disabilities.

I heard it's not a very pleasant way to go. I'd rather something like someone giving me too much morphine while I was asleep, or like how they do pets but you'd be unconscious. I think the medicine they give you makes you feel really awful. I mean obviously it's meant to kill you but I wouldn't want any pain or suffering.

Perhaps I’m biased because I know two people who have taken an overdose and ended their lives that way.

As for saying goodbye - no, absolutely not. I wouldn’t want this regardless of circumstances. I’d leave a note for each person I cared for.

Yes

No i don't the drugs are controlled i have no advantage.

That's my greatest fear because my dad had dementia and died a horrible death. Dementia is a terminal illness as it is a progressive and incurable condition that leads to death but it can take years.

I have read heartbreaking posts on the Elderly Parents board from posters who are caring for parents in the late stages of dementia who don't recognise their own children and are doubly incontinent with no quality of life whatsoever. It is a living hell for the dementia sufferer and their family.

If I get dementia, I would love to be able to make an informed decision in the early stages while I still have the capacity to make that decision with a medical professional deciding when the disease is so advanced that there is no quality of life left at all.

However, I doubt that this will be permitted in my lifetime as people are really squeamish about people making rational decisions about when their own lives wouldn't be worth living.

You have obviously completely misunderstood the scope of the new Assisted Dying bill. It won't be a consideration for every ill, depressed or vulnerable person from now on. It's for people with a terminal illness with less than six months to live.

We aren't animals but compassionate pet owners will take the vet's advice to have their pet put to sleep to prevent unnecessary suffering.

As for 'life is a gift'. Some gifts are unwanted and some people have terribly difficult lives of unrelieved suffering.

Yes absolutely. In fact I hope by the time I am very elderly it will be available for prolonged ill health/ dementia as well as a terminal diagnosis!

@thepariscrimefiles the scope of the rules will undoubtedly change. They’ve changed already. Remember that a judge was originally expected to ok the decision? That’s gone already. The Royal College of Psychiatrists and many other professional bodies have opposed the proposals. And countries where AD has been brought in have seen numbers rise year after year.

So sorry for all the people on this thread who are suffering illness themselves or have watched loved ones suffer. I definitely would choose AD after watching 4 relatives die from cancer. One of them suffered terribly. I'm convinced that the GP who visited her at home gave her an overdose of morphine and I silently thanked them for it.

I can't for religious reasons. I also suffer from a top 3 most painful conditions that a human can have. I'm going to die screaming in agony in an NHS cupboard on some A&E corridor no doubt. Let's hope it's quick.