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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be conflicted about Remembrance Services?

185 replies

PaddlingSwan · 08/11/2025 21:32

I have friends and family on both sides.

OP posts:
SeriaMau · 09/11/2025 07:20

ttcat37 · 09/11/2025 02:18

Good for you. I’m sure you shutting your eyes for 2 minutes once a year makes all the difference.

I spend two minutes thinking about my grandfather and the many others who gave their lives.
Shame on you.

RhaenysRocks · 09/11/2025 07:27

PaddlingSwan · 08/11/2025 21:40

@BuffaloCauliflower Yes.
I feel the UK makes too much of the whole thing.
No issue with remebering or respecting the people who served in the forces, one of my nephews is in the Royal Navy, but can we just not play on WW2? Most people have no understanding of the causes.

Well firstly it's fundamental focus is WW1 not WWII..The poppies grew in Flanders after 1918. Secondly, every service I ever been to talks about the ALL fallen soldiers, in any conflict. That may not have been the case in the earlier days when experiences and memories were raw but it is now. The only "sides" I know are those who think it glorifies war and violence and choose not to participate on that basis. I think that's somewhat overthinking it and doing a disservice to the often very young and naive troops who obediently went up the line to serve their country. Whichever country.

MaryBeardsShoes · 09/11/2025 07:34

SameOldHill · 08/11/2025 21:43

I think I know what you mean. On the one hand you want to remember the poor lads who died but on the other you don’t want to join in the glorification of war in the form of “dulce et decorum es”.

Britain loves to remember the wars where they were on the right side of history whilst at the same time sweeping under the carpet the ones where they were belligerent colonisers.

“Poor lads” and all the women and children who were killed.

TooTiredMum2 · 09/11/2025 07:37

peepsypops · 08/11/2025 21:39

There’s a total fascination/obsession with war memorial services in the UK in my opinion. I often wondered is it similar in other countries?

I’m from another European country and we don’t have that, it took me some time getting used to it. We have a simple minute of silence to commemorate the end of WW2 and a putting down flowers (by a representative of the government) but it’s not a noticeable part of public life…like no poppy wearing or similar, no events, and I’ve never heard anyone mentioning it to me in my day to day life. It does feel like there’s quite a difference.

Namelessnelly · 09/11/2025 07:53

PaddlingSwan · 08/11/2025 21:40

@BuffaloCauliflower Yes.
I feel the UK makes too much of the whole thing.
No issue with remebering or respecting the people who served in the forces, one of my nephews is in the Royal Navy, but can we just not play on WW2? Most people have no understanding of the causes.

Oh I think a lot of people understand the cause of WW2. Are you trying to say it was not because of the rise of the Nazis, their manipulation of the German people and their invasion of Europe?

Namelessnelly · 09/11/2025 07:57

TooTiredMum2 · 09/11/2025 07:37

I’m from another European country and we don’t have that, it took me some time getting used to it. We have a simple minute of silence to commemorate the end of WW2 and a putting down flowers (by a representative of the government) but it’s not a noticeable part of public life…like no poppy wearing or similar, no events, and I’ve never heard anyone mentioning it to me in my day to day life. It does feel like there’s quite a difference.

Edited

Do you know the sales of the poppy supports veterans, their families and provides vital support when they need it? Without the poppy sales, many many more veterans would not get the help and care they need, it should’ve the government providing this of course, but as they won’t, the RBL stepped in. How are the veterans in your country treated?

DenizenOfAisleOfShame · 09/11/2025 08:39

We pay very little attention to the military in this country compared to many other countries. We don’t have military parades with tanks and rockets. Ours are ceremonial and musical. Veterans gather at the cenotaph in ordinary clothes, or at the most in their service berets.

It’s rare to see servicemen and -women in uniform in everyday life.

We do not fetishise the military. We do not glorify war. We spend our money and efforts on remembrance and assistance. And the maintenance of graves.

Whammyammy · 09/11/2025 08:44

Remembrance day is remembering the fallen on any side.

AgnesX · 09/11/2025 08:50

Remembrance Day remembers everyone doesn't it? The sheer waste of life on all sides. The emphasis in the UK will be on the British but not entirely.

Bambamhoohoo · 09/11/2025 08:54

Kimura · 09/11/2025 01:15

We've seen people in this very thread told they should leave the country for suggesting that we go over the top with things like remembrance celebrations for one.

The uproar we see every year when someone in the public eye doesn't wear a poppy on TV. A poster here recently revealed that she was threatened with disciplinary action for not wearing one at work after clients complained.

The nonsense stories that pop up every year about businesses/councils/venues etc banning the poppy because it offends Muslims.

The evergreen strawman: "How can we do X, when we've got veterans living on the streets?"

The suggestion that any number of things happening/changing in society is somehow a slap in the face of those who fought and died for our freedoms.

I'm not suggesting that we're all saluting a framed photo of the General before our tea and crumpets every morning...but we do lionise the military and castigate anyone who pushes back.

This is all sun reading hysteria though isn’t it? Normal British people living normal lives don’t fetishise the military

Bambamhoohoo · 09/11/2025 08:57

TooTiredMum2 · 09/11/2025 07:37

I’m from another European country and we don’t have that, it took me some time getting used to it. We have a simple minute of silence to commemorate the end of WW2 and a putting down flowers (by a representative of the government) but it’s not a noticeable part of public life…like no poppy wearing or similar, no events, and I’ve never heard anyone mentioning it to me in my day to day life. It does feel like there’s quite a difference.

Edited

Surely an European country affected by WW2 has a system of remembrance? I would suspect a deep generational trauma if not, because as others have said, it’s been a healthy way of working through the trauma with a positive outcome (eventually!)

my BF is South African, and yes, he thinks it’s weird. But it doesn’t matter that much as a point, there are many things they do in SA I find weird, it’s just different cultures, none better than the other.

WhenDiedreMetKen · 09/11/2025 09:14

Both sides of what?

BMW6 · 09/11/2025 09:14

SameOldHill · 08/11/2025 21:43

I think I know what you mean. On the one hand you want to remember the poor lads who died but on the other you don’t want to join in the glorification of war in the form of “dulce et decorum es”.

Britain loves to remember the wars where they were on the right side of history whilst at the same time sweeping under the carpet the ones where they were belligerent colonisers.

You have obviously never read that poem.
Fool.

WhenDiedreMetKen · 09/11/2025 09:16

Wow yet another time I wish I had never opened the thread. Disgusting comments.

BMW6 · 09/11/2025 09:19

Dulce et Decorum Est

By Wilfred Owen

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs,
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots,
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of gas-shells dropping softly behind.

Gas! GAS! Quick, boys!—An ecstasy of fumbling
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time,
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And flound’ring like a man in fire or lime.—
Dim through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams, you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil’s sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,—
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.

OttersMayHaveShifted · 09/11/2025 09:21

BMW6 · 09/11/2025 09:14

You have obviously never read that poem.
Fool.

I assumed the poster was criticising the message of the phrase 'dulce et decorum est pro patria mori', rather than criticising the message of the poem.

WhenDiedreMetKen · 09/11/2025 09:21

So now even this has been made a source of division? Stop living online and following morons? Stop thinking TikTok and youtube are real life. Lest we forget indeed!!

Bruisername · 09/11/2025 09:24

I find this interesting because my German family are keen not to forget and really hate the move to rebrand the ‘baddies’ in ww2 as Nazis instead of saying Germans. they recognise the ‘bad things happen when good people stand by and do nothing’

so being from ‘both sides’ isn’t a competition and remembrance ceremonies on recent years have included German representation and they recently buried a German and a British WW1 soldier together in a joint ceremony I believe because we are far enough away to see it as an historic event but close enough to still try and learn

MinnieCauldwell · 09/11/2025 09:29

Mischance · 08/11/2025 21:55

I too am conflicted but for different reasons. My father was in Singapore in the 2nd WW. He refused to wear a poppy or have anything to do with remembrance events.

I lost my uncle in Singapore. I have known other men who feel the same as your father. They were so badly let down in Singapore.

TooTiredMum2 · 09/11/2025 09:30

Namelessnelly · 09/11/2025 07:57

Do you know the sales of the poppy supports veterans, their families and provides vital support when they need it? Without the poppy sales, many many more veterans would not get the help and care they need, it should’ve the government providing this of course, but as they won’t, the RBL stepped in. How are the veterans in your country treated?

My post didn’t say anything against poppy wearing or selling, I just said that this doesn’t exist in my birth country. Our veterans are supported through a state pension system.

beulaballbreaker · 09/11/2025 09:31

BMW6 · 09/11/2025 09:19

Dulce et Decorum Est

By Wilfred Owen

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs,
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots,
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of gas-shells dropping softly behind.

Gas! GAS! Quick, boys!—An ecstasy of fumbling
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time,
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And flound’ring like a man in fire or lime.—
Dim through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams, you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil’s sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,—
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.

And the poster who used the phrase Dulce et Decorum Est understood exactly the meaning of the poem. The mistake was yours, not theirs.

supersonicginandtonic · 09/11/2025 09:37

It's about remembering people. Not just from the world wars, from every war. My brother goes who lost friends when he was serving in Afghanistan.
I will be going to remember my grandad with my ex MIL. Her parents were German and also polish jewish. She remembers everybody. It's not about sides.

Mydadsbirthday · 09/11/2025 09:49

merryhouse · 08/11/2025 21:38

It's all gone very 80s, hasn't it?

It seemed as if it all changed in 1995, when we marked 50 years since the end of the war. The emphasis shifted from lions led by DONKEYS to LIONS led by donkeys

Now that practically all the veterans (and indeed their younger cousins) have gone, the tide is turning again.

What does this mean?

IwishIhadcheese · 09/11/2025 09:50

You can and should remember ‘both sides’.

Mark it in whatever way is most meaningful to you. We might not go to a parade but we use it as a time to reflect and remember.

SerafinasGoose · 09/11/2025 10:13

Jeschara · 08/11/2025 21:49

It's about showing respect, the words they gave their tommorows for our today's come to mind.

If you are conflicted don't engage, leave it to those who wear poppies, and respect remembrance day.

It’s not necessary to wear a poppy to show respect.

My grandfather served in WWII, never wore a poppy in his life, and had no time for glorification. I donate to a PTSD charity and not the Royal British Legion.

There are many forms of respect. The trouble with the poppy is that it’s more lately become a symbol of policing others and behaving censoriously when they decline to conform. This sails perilously close to the ideology being fought against in the first place.

i don’t tell others what they should or shouldn’t wear or dictate the parameters under which they offer respect. That’s a personal thing. I also find that people don’t take too kindly to being told what to think.

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