why do you wear a poppy?

[oiolehnvn]

Lots of red poppies around us at the moment. Disclaimer I am not British but come from a country that is currently waging a war, in fact technically two countries that have been in the news for waging wars and have always been uncomfortable with people supporting or celebrating our army. I am therefore puzzled as to why the Brits wear poppies ever year. If you choose to wear one, what's your rationale? Equally, if you do not - what's yours?

Why do you think the lines
Fear not that ye have died for naught;
We'll teach the lesson that ye wrought
mean more than trying to make the world they died for a better place?

Fireworks aren’t questioned as to why though. Just as to whether they need to be so loud and so easily available for back garden aerial bombardment re-enactments.

@cardibach happy to question the fireworks tradition - how do you explain that? I've tried and ended up muddling it up and my kid got very confused about catholics and parliament. Thats an even harder tradition for a foreigner to explain

Because they were literally written as a response to a poem saying ‘take up our quarrel with the foe…if ye break faith with us who die we shall not sleep’.

It's not hugely complicated.
Guy Fawkes was part of a group of Catholics who wanted a Catholic Monarch (King/Queen) instead of a Protestant (Church of England) one.
So they planned to blow up parliament using gunpowder as an act of terror (so sometimes called the "Gunpowder Plot")
However they failed and we celebrate that failure.
November 5th also known as Bonfire Night or Fireworks Night traditionally has a bonfire with an effigy of Guy Fawkes burnt on it and fireworks to represent what would have been if the gunpowder plot had worked.

I am proud to wear the scarlet poppy as my recognition of my wonderful, loving late grandmother who, all her life, mourned the loss of her brother in Flanders.

I shall myself be beneath the Menin Gate on Tuesday and it is a limitless honour to do so.

@Needmorelego so the religious part if quite important then. I was trying to go there but I guess you cant avoid it. Dc got muddled up with Catholics, Cromwell and parliament.

Yes religion is very important to the reason of why they wanted to blow uo parliament.
Basically the monarch (King/Queen) is Church of England (Protestant). CofE was invented by Henry VIII so he could get a divorce as he couldn't under Catholic rules.
But some people wanted the monarch to be Catholic so that's why things like the Gunpowder Plot happened.
Terrorism basically but in the year 1605.
(Cromwell came later....he would have been only 6 years old in 1605)

It is actually quite complicated, especially the burning of hated effigies bonfire tradition [whereas Fawkes was actually hung drawn and quartered] & yet also showing a what if scenario [the fireworks]. In some towns there are also large processions with everyone holding flaming torches). And yes, very anti Catholic - violently so in the past - yet today bonfire night events are hosted by Catholic primary schools! It’s a very strange thing to commemorate in a modern state that promotes multi culturalism & aims to be anti sectarian. And it’s also noteworthy that Guy Fawkes Night was originally a state mandated celebration since the 1600s, with religious sermons a key element, intended to promote Protestant patriotism and anti-Catholic sentiment, only repealed in the 1800s. As an ex Catholic I love it though 😝 I love the history & alien-ness of old traditions. But I don’t pretend it makes sense.

I think the most important thing, and something which is clearly not recognized in the current media frenzied poppy policing, is that these young men died to allow freedoms and choice.

My Dad was a WW2 veteran. He went to visit his dead friends every year in Italy, and I went with him. But for him it was a very personal experience, and he was not a great fan of public remamberance.

I think this is important. I also know veterans who loathe the public events because it shouldn’t be the case that veterans have to rely on charities to support their needs following service (or in the case of my uncle, serious permanent injuries sustained during training). I’ve heard remembrance events etc described as a form of white washing. I think the state should by default cover all relevant medical and MH needs for life, for those who have served.

still not seeing why that’s not about fighting evil and making the world better. There is a literal element to ‘the foe’ as it was written during war, but that was quite specific. It’s not about having more wars.

Poppy policing is a good phrase, less aggressive than poppy fascism. I’ll use that from now on. I told co-worker I wasn’t buying a poppy from her at reception because I don’t support military charities of any kind, which is true.
Shes now brought that up a few times, so perhaps saying Indisgaree with Poppy policing might get the message through her thick skull. And yes Gemma, that’s also why I didn’t sponsor your Helpf For Heroes thing either, if you’re reading this…

Are you taking part in the Last Post Ceremony? I’ve done that twice, singing. So moving and, as you say, a honour and a privilege.

@Procrastinatrixx yes that's very true - it is quite complicated.
The basics though of "tried to blow up parliament, failed, we celebrate that failure" is an easy description for a small child (which I think was what the OP was trying to teach to her young child).

I don't wish to be the "well akshully" person, but just on point of fact, Fawkes wasn't drawn and quartered. He jumped from the scaffold and broke his own neck to avoid it.

As you were.

@Needmorelego thanks. I think where it gets confusing for a foreigner is the whole - kings but also parliament. Usually it's parliament or King, in England it ends up as both. Hence Cromwell, king, catholic confusion ;-)

I don't wear one. I'm anti conflict. I rarely wear a coat this time of year either.

As I said upthread different people see it differently and that should be okay. The problem is that it seems not to be okay.

I’ve no doubt they were trying to make the world a better place. If avoiding war was the lesson it’s one that wasn’t learned. Buying a poppy today literally means supporting current soldiers, not just remembering the sacrifice of the WWs.

I’m anti conflict too. Doesn’t stop me being sorry about people who have died in conflict though. And what exactly has a coat got to do with it?

Supporting current soldiers with needs which aren’t being met by the government. Or their families. It’s not supporting war. That’s just inaccurate, though I agree you can interpret McCrae’s poem in different ways.

Wearing a badge doesn't make you respectful. I pay my respects through my behaviour and actions. Most people who wear a poppy pin it to their coat. I don't want to have pins stuck in my clothing.

But by all means, I'm absolutely disrespectful. I volunteer with veterans year round so don't feel the need to pay lip service on one day.

It’s a fine line there. The military needs to look after its own people. It’s not okay that they don’t and spend the money on bombs instead.

I haven’t said anything about respect in my post to you.

I can’t imagine being without an army, and that means ensuring those soldiers know their lives are valued, and will have support when needed, and will be remembered if they make the ultimate sacrifice.