To wonder why people are so scared

[MattCauthon]

I've noticed recently, in RL and on here and in other SM, that there are a lot of people who get very upset/scared about things that I think are just not rational. I'm not talking about people who have anxiety issues or even who have been endlessly abused/controlled by a partner/parent etc which has led to them being unable to see the wood for the trees.

But a few examples:

complicated boring backstory but woman was being harassed and threatened by the father of a child in her kid's class, and she works at the school. She is now terrified that she will be fired becaus of this other dad (very very clear that she has done nothing wrong, and this other dad has been in public arguments with other people in the past so has a long history at the school of poor behaviour).

The endless hysteria about children being kidnapped when it's actually extraordinarily rare.

Passport photo signing or witnessing legal documents - I've lost count of the people who can't seem to find anyone to do this because people are scard to put their name to these sorts of things. I've done about 20 passport photos for various friends/school parent families because I am fully aware that there's no personal risk to me when I say, "yes, that's the child I've known for five years as John Smith who has been in the same class as my child since reception" or "yes, I have witnessed these two people signing this document."

A friend who is too scared to tell the school about her DH's anxiety issues, even though it directly impacts their child and he's been playing up a little in class and frankly, needs a bit more support. She is scared the school will "do something". But I can't work out what? She's a great parent who is doing her best to support her DC and her DH, her DH is seeking appropriate medical treatment etc.

When did we lose so much trust in each other and every organisation in the world?

Had a related though earlier this week about high levels of anxiety about inconsequential stuff, particularly parenting, often seen in threads on here. It's weird.

Apparently the op has “lost count” of the number of times this has happened!

Perhaps a little hyperbole in terms of quite how frequent! 🤣🤣.

But its frequently yes, nonetheless.

I see things in real life and then loads of similar on social media and its just weird! Even just the few responses on here agreeing that, for example, signing as a witness is risky.

So how many times has your request for a document to be witnessed be rejected given you’ve admitted it is not the case that it’s so very many you have “lost count”

and When did we lose so much trust in each other and every organisation in the world?

every organisation 🤨. More hyperbole presumably?

How close are you to said NDN?

My word, you are very upset about this.

Its a general theme. I said I notice a lot of people seem to be paranoid. You disagree. That's ok. But I dont have to provide receipts for every possible interaction I have ever had to prove why I feel this.

My point stands. I believe that a lot (not all) of people are weirdly paranoid about things I think are no big deal. I agree with some other posters that perhaps its in part sm and people seeing /hearing the worst of others or ideas spreading? I dont know. I just know I find it weird. And frankly irritating. On MN and in RL.

NDN

AIBU to refuse to witness NDN’s legal doc because I don’t like or trust her

I used to be trusting and open minded, however, as I've got into my 50s I have experienced institutional gas-lighting to a degree that I can't quite grasp on a rational basis, yet have the receipts to prove it.

I have also had friends and a family member who appeared reasonably stable despite various issues who have engaged in utterly batshit behaviour, that I've either been caught up in or the target of despite doing nothing to warrant it.

I've wondered if it is a me problem, but others have experienced the same from said individuals so I appear to be unlucky.

So, I try to remain open minded and am not "scared" on a daily basis, because what will be will be and life is too short, however I keep my circle small and am very guarded about what I share and I do analyse motivation when anyone new comes into my life.

As for the parenting anxiety, my sons are adults, and as they were growing up I tried hard to strike a happy medium around risk management, however I do think that the media and awareness of official oversight does make one more cautious. My generation were in the "benign neglect" category when we were growing up, these days it would just be classed as neglect.

I think the pandemic monkeyed with alot of people too. Fear was leveraged to control us to a degree that the behavioural psychologists working for the government at the time now question. I recommend a book called "State of Fear" to get an idea about that.

Unfortunately I also think that we are under more psychological pressure from the media these days, it's hard to completely avoid the sensational way things are reported, and to keep a balanced view. I think it interferes with our ability to assess risk accurately sometimes.

What do you think is going to happen if you witness a document without reading it? You are simply stating that you have witnessed the person signing the document. I have done it numerous times in my working life.

I am beginning to think OP has a point .....

I have a senior role in child services
I don’t wish to put my name to anything, even if there’s no onus on me to have read said document, unless I read through it very carefully. I don’t want to spend my time doing that for a NDN who, let’s say I hardly knew them or maybe didn’t like them! So I would politely say - no.

There will be many in similar professions that do not wish to sign anything without reading through first even if there isn’t any onus on them to do so.

But it will say very clearly that yes a witness signature when you sign. All you're doing is confirming that someone else has signed the document. It doesn't matter what's in the document.

Yes
I know that

but I am a professional in a senior very responsible role. I do not wish for my name to be on anything that I haven’t read through.

It would be very irresponsible of you to sign anything without proper information. It might be nothing but if it’s nothing then why do you need to sign. I like that you take your profession seriously!

It wouldn’t be “irresponsible” insofar as no legal ramifications

However my professionalism isn’t a facade. I do not want my name against any document that I have not read.

How is wanting to read through a document before witnessing it for someone classed as being 'scared'?

If anything, it's using common sense to want to do this first. I'd never sign anything without checking the contents, as I could be signing something that could be potentially fraudulent. For instance, my NDN could've made a home made WIll on her Mum's behalf leaving everything to herself and excluding her siblings.

If my NDN then asks me and another neighbour to sign as witnesses (even including watching her Mum sign), then I wouldn't want to sign something that could cause contention and/or possibly be fraudulent.
This isn't a far fetched scenario either, it happened in my family.

A family member wrote out her own mother's Will in her own handwriting, made herself the Executor and sole beneficiary (excluding her own sibling) and had people she wanted to sign it. Nothing could be done as it appeared valid due to the execution of the witness signatures. I wouldn't want to be a part of something like that.

This is just one example why it's wise to read what you're prepared to put your name to.

I find I live and have people around me that are infinitely trustworthy. Generally I find England a very trustworthy nation.

Anxiety can cause some of the issues you have seen, and they need more reassurance and comfort.

Life is only as happy as the lens it’s being viewed through.

How very depressing.

Do you have children?

I would say 24hr rolling news followed by social media has made everyone more aware of the things that happen they would have been unaware of before. Mixed with ever increasing demands on us, a few decades ago you didn't have to choose your electricity provider and insurance was through a broker, you popped to the closest supermarket and picked up things without worrying about UPF and you could turn on your heating without worrying about climate collapse.

Added to algorithms feeding different people different information, so where we think we're coming from the same place as our neighbour we no longer have a shared understanding, so for instance one persons feeds/news sources are screaming at them about the impact of UPF and their NDNs is sending them videos of frauds and scams can mean when they come together for a cup of tea and asked to witness a mortgage document means one person is horrified at the pink biscuits on offer and the other one is terrified to sign the document.

There's a great book called 'how to be perfect' that explores how difficult it is to make a simple decision when we have so much information about the consequences of every action

You put the school address. I've done it for pupils I teach.

You are witnessing in a personal capacity though

Because the person is only witnessing the signature has happened in front of them by the person doing it. When the signature is for is completely irrelevant.

Don't think you are describing people being paranoid, I think you are describing people being CAUTIOUS about some of these things. They probably are careful to not get involved because they imagine what could be the worse case scenario. This is no bad thing. It is being sensible.

If you don't consider actions and their possible consequences, then it is very strange.
Most people want a quiet life, don't want the worry, so it is easier to not get involved.

Because life is not easy for people at the moment. Much of which many of us took for granted or hoped for feels like its harder to obtain or slipping away. This leads to a heightened sense of mistrust, and the feeling that anything bad is possible.
We know services are underfunded and poor, and errors are made, so why should we assume they will deal with us appropriately or fairly? We know that jobs can be lost and the consequences are severe, so become anxious in any situation that we feel may rock the boat. We know data is not always handled correctly and can be used for nefarious means.
Add a general sense of walking on egg shells in a world that's not particularly on our side at present to media that informs us night and day of every bad thing that's happened to anyone anywhere, and some people will be very cautious.

Why though? You're just witnessing a signature, not approving whatever the document is about. You're not required to read it. And as a high up professional in a very responsible role you should know that.

People have lost all sense of proportion. In the wild, our nervous systems are wired for survival and avoidance of very real threats. In the modern world those threats don't really exist anymore, so people's nervous systems are free to react to quite minor things as though they're a real threat. This leads to lack of resilience and neurosis. We need a national emergency like a war to reset everyone back to survival mode. Everything else will be small fry after that. Sense of proportion is everything.

Personal pride
i have witnessed a dozen docs for friends and colleagues (in a personal capacity) and I have always asked to have a read through, and no one batted an eye.

And of the times I have asked others, I reckon 50% have read.

i guess we are all just very used to reading reports etc and signing them off. So even though the implications are…. None in a legal sense, my three odd decades of work have instilled in me that my name, is important to me and my reputation, so I would read before witnessing.

I don’t want to, for example, witness anything I disagree with. No legal ramifications upon me if I did but I personally do not want to