To hate the school system and at end of tether

[Spiritofeden1989]

My DD is year 9 - she’s bright, was above average in her SATS but the secondary system has broken her completely.

She used to love learning - she struggled to settle at secondary and hasn’t had any support, quite the opposite in fact. The school is so punitive that it’s broken her completely- she was at one point school refusing because she couldn’t face being punished for forgetting a pen.

Instead of supporting her to come back, they have been useless and it’s been like a spiral downwards. They treat her like they have given up on her. She’s not naughty, just disengaged and they don’t care.

I am now worried that my bright once engaged child who loved learning is now going to fail her GCSEs because of a total failure in support. I have to fight at every single turn for everything- no one has ever once asked her in school if she’s ok or bothered to find out what might help.

I am in total despair- the other local schools don’t have places so I can’t move her despite trying desperately. I feel like my relationship with the school has broken down as no one has listened to me. It’s archaic and at no point has the wellbeing of the child in mind.

Anyone got any advice? Am at end of my tether.

I know you mentioned you don’t feel like DD is ND but could it be a possibility?

anxiety is very common, especially amongst autistic girls. They tend to get missed completely. My daughter was always well behaved, academic etc but masked every day. Her true struggles didn’t become apparent until high school.

I’ve defintely been round the houses with it- esp ADHD- but I am just not sure- I feel like we are so desperate that I am not sure we are seeing clearly- so not ruling it out but am just not sure!

I could have written your post OP. Daughter, Year 9, completely disengaged. Recently diagnosed ASD to add to her ADHD, attendance below 40% and school don’t care. She HAS to do 8 GCSE’s don’t you know. She’s at an academy school and doesn’t want to move but I’m not sure we’ll have a choice. You have my sympathy, it’s so incredibly difficult. x

The role of a SENCo is to co-ordinate the needs of any student for whom there are barriers to learning. It isn’t necessary to have a diagnosis in order to have support. Evidence of need is what’s required and there is evidence of that.

There are adjustments that are not difficult to implement, that could help with the anxiety. It doesn’t sound like a supportive environment at all.

Are you on waiting lists for other schools? A place may come up, even if there isn’t one at the moment.

Anxiety is usually the first presenting symptom of ND in girls. And is wrongly diagnosed as anxiety.

This sounds really difficult OP. School don’t seem to want to work with you on this. Some school environments and cultures are toxic.

Definitely look into a 14-16 programme at a local college (which she could start next September).
If you have the means to home educate in the meantime then do it.
She can see her friends out of school and if there's a decent amount of home educating families in your area there will probably be meetup groups (some for group lessons, some just social).

Completely agree with @ArseInTheCoOpWindow - anxiety was our autistic younger DD’s predominant symptom but she was in private school and had much more support. The intensity of your DD’s reaction to the situation also suggests possible neuro-diversity to me - the inability to work out how to negotiate the system and finding the impact of the punishments to be sort of existential.

Hi OP,
SEN support should cover (diagnosis or not) Social, emotional and mental health. If your SENCO is refusing to speak to you, try an email to the head with a view to making a formal complaint. They are failing your child. Failing that, get in touch with your Local Authority, or your MP.

If the SENCO is ignoring you, go higher. The school must make their best endeavours to meet DD’s SEN. Diagnosis or not. Same for reasonable adjustments. Follow up all verbal conversations with emails so you have a paper trail should you need it.

Request an EHCNA yourself. On their website, IPSEA has a model letter you can use. You don’t need the school’s support to do this. Again, this doesn’t require a diagnosis, so don’t let the anyone fob you off with that.

If DD is unable to attend school, you can also request alternative provision. IPSEA has a model letter for this too. This also doesn’t require a diagnosis.

Have you checked what the school is recording absences as? They should be coded as I and therefore authorised. I have a suspicion they may not be in your case though.

Op I have massage you

I really sympathise with this. I would have found a school environment where you’re punished for any tiny uniform infraction etc stressful even though I was well behaved. A lot of schools today sound like prisons and I don’t think you need to be neurodiverse to struggle with that environment.

There are private schools, particularly some girls schools (though not the academic hot house type), which cater well to these sorts of children. They don’t tend to have extreme behaviour policies.

Hello OP

I always seem to pop up on these threads … I’ve been through it, no kinda out the other side.

First off .. you are not on your own, and you are not the only person in this situation. Please join us here https://notfineinschool.co.uk/ … there is also a group on FB. You’ll find loads of support and resources.

My advice would be not to take her out, but rather ensure that the school / LA / Health Services do a better job. You are not wholly responsible for getting her to school .. all of those professionals need to do thier job, and provide the correct level of support.

One thing you’ll learn as the parent of a child with specific needs is that you need to get your elbows out, and start getting demanding. What are the school doing to provide an environment for your daughter to learn in? They have a legal responsibility, and they need to meet that. They are not doing you a favour.

You do not need an EHCP (but handy), you can put the request into the council yourself, and start the process .. you do not need to wait for the council.

DD is 19 now, and very happy at college .. however she missed all of Y10 & Y11, and most of year 9 .. and had 2 false starts at college. But she is happy, healthy, and we have a great relationship.

Don’t make attendance a battle .. I did it, and it was a massive mistake. What DD needed yo hear was that I loved her, was on her side, and we would get through it together.

As it was she was Diagnosed with ASD at 17, and her anxiety was related to that .. Sertraline was a bit of a game changer.

I find schools attitude towards this kind of issue shocking. DDs (ex) school has completly overhauled SEND, after DDs experiences . Students don’t need an EHCP to access support, there are alternative timetables, reduced timetables, school have spent money on trained support etc. Schools need to do better.

There is a great podcast series on CATCH (www.catchconnect.org) about students who are struggling to attend school because of anxiety, or neuro diversity or trauma, which gives advice on what approaches to try. The lady who does the podcast works in a special school for kids that struggle to attend. She has lots of advice that I found so helpful with my Yr9 child. You have to pay to join, but it's only £25 per year and then you can listen to whichever podcasts you like.
You can also contact your local authority's version of Sendiass (SEND independent advice support service) and also IPSEA who are great at giving legal advice for what schools and LAs should be doing to support students who are struggling.
Good luck!

So glad @ExtraOnions linked to Not Fine, join the group.
SENCO is utterly wrong, as others have said diagnosis is not needed and the Department of Education even state this in their policies. Go back to school and argue with everything you've got. It's exhausting. You're not alone.

Any poster who suggested OP give her daughter a pen - may you rot in hell.

I would speak to your local SENDIASS to ask for support on appealing to get her a place at a better supportive school. In my experience schools who aren’t supportive don’t suddenly changed their attitude when it’s pointed out to them.

I just wanted to say how similar your daughters experience sounds to mine at secondary school. As an adult I have been diagnosed with inattentive ADHD (potentially autistic too) and so much of my schooling experience makes sense now as my brain was just finding it so overwhelming to keep up with all the rules/expectations, remembering items and social aspects that I’d just be constantly burnt out dreading and avoiding school, unable to focus and learn when there or just behind from needing the time off. I also absolutely hated ever being told off.

You sound really supportive of your daughter and I really wish I had someone fighting my corner when I was a teen, I’m sure she’ll really appreciate this especially as she gets older.
In my own experience I think I would’ve liked to have moved to home ed as I already had close friendships I’d be able to continue outside school or like you’ve been trying another smaller more accommodating school.

Be careful with SENDIASS. Some are good but too many repeat the LA’s unlawful policies.

Not that clever, clever would be to "take a pen to school", bring a pen to school 🙄

Can you homeschool? I appreciate that if you don't wfh, you might not want to leave her alone for 12 hours a day (or whatever your workday is, plus commute; I know that I wouldn't be able to, but we all have different circumstances). But if you, or someone else in your family, is able to be home a lot, would that be something you'd like to look at? What about online schooling-maybe someone can advise if there's any free ones, the only person I know who uses one spends a fortune on it, so I respect that's not possible for everyone.

Hi, has your daughter tried talking to her head of year? What are they like?
My ds had anxiety the first couple of years and had a lovely head of year who listened to him and provided support and recommendations. My ds was also given a couple of coloured cards that he could use if he needed to take 5 outside the classroom before going back in and sometimes went to do his work in their SEND department.

You clearly don’t understand it’s not about the pen, it’s about the anxiety of inadvertently breaking a rule and facing whatever punishment might be attached to that. Today it’s worrying you don’t have a pen, so you take 5 with you just in case, and in doing so you forget the bobble you need to tie your hair up and get pulled ip for that. Or you return to class after a period of absence (due to anxiety about school) and a teacher welcomes you with “so nice of you to join us”, the teacher thinks they’re being funny but the child is deeply embarrassed.

If you’ve never experienced it, that kind of anxiety can be hard to understand and yes, in the long run the answer is yo work on the anxiety but try finding a CAMHS service that will take a child on if they aren’t actively harming themself.

Schools need to have rules but the way they enforce those rules, and the degree of detail in those rules can make the difference between a child being in school or not.

How would it be for you if your workplace dictated what you wore down to the colour of your socks, and isolated you from your peers for wearing blue instead of black. Or called you out in front of your peers for not having a pen, or counted up all the minor things you did wrong across the day and made you work extra when you had three things wrong in a day. It wouldn’t take long for you to become extremely anxious about being in work. Why do we think kids, with far fewer developed coping mechanisms should cope with that?

I was wryly commenting on the PPs pisspoor grasp of the English language, I get the pen issue etc.

Apologies, my sarcasm meter is obvious “off” this morning.

No worries, totally agree with your summation - I taught for over 20 years, rules are one thing, but these nit-picking rules that are so complex they exist just to effectively bully kids is awful.

If a child forgot a pen in my class, I'd give them one from the biscuit tin full under my desk.

Children need rules, but simple, logical and fair rules, that are easy to follow and make good sense.

I had a row with my head once, who wanted to give a detention to a girl who rocked up with pink hair. I defender her (and got her off), I said, she's here, on time, ready to learn, no trouble, what the colour of her hair got to do with it! (plus we had a teacher with shock pink hair)!