To ask where would be an option to move to?

[Wheretogotonow]

We’re starting to look into moving abroad for a better lifestyle and improved safety, and I’d really appreciate any advice from those who have already moved or are considering it.

Our situation:

• My husband is a top 1% earner.
• I don’t currently work (child care around school) but I have a master’s degree so can look to go back into work.
• We own a 3-bed semi-detached house with a mortgage, in an expensive area due to my husband’s job we need this location.
• We pay privately for healthcare and for our children’s schooling.
• We don’t receive benefits (or receive reduced child benefit).
• We consider ourselves community-focused—we volunteer, are involved locally, and have nice children.

Despite all of this, we’re being priced out. Food costs have increased, VAT is being added to school fees, and with Rachel Reeves’ upcoming budget, it looks like we’ll be taxed even more.

We also don’t feel as safe anymore. There was a stabbing of a teenager at the end of our road—not something you expect in what’s meant to be a nice area. It’s getting worse and I’m fine to say I don’t feel safe walking the dog on my own anymore.

So, for those who have relocated or are planning to—where did you go, and why? What should we consider?
We won’t be a burden to any country we move to—our intention is to continue paying for schooling and healthcare privately and to contribute positively to the community.

No need for negative comments- we love England and are both born and bred here but it’s not the same as when we were children and I just don’t want this for our children. We know it’s time to go.

I agree with posters saying that you are unlikely to be better quality of life in a different European country (if you can get there). All pretty similar to UK as Violinist64 says. Uk gets a bad rep on mumsnet but I don’t think the people saying it have lived abroad. uk and europe do have advantages of quality education (world leading unis), vibrant culture, arts and history.

Australia is probably a good quality of life if you don’t mind daily managing the skin cancer risk for your kids and the reality of rarely seeing Europe (or friends here) again. It’s very far away.

As do I. I hold multiple citizenships and have emigrated twice. I also speak three languages fluently (well, technically six, but I group four together as Serbo-Croatian).

Op said that she has an Irish passport, but I don’t believe she shared what passports her husband and children hold. I stand corrected on the Dubai point.

I didn’t say that the generous packages of old are readily handed out, but that OP and her husband are the ones in the position to know whether they can secure one (or if such a package is even necessary for emigration to be possible). Based on what OP has said, they do already know that they are able to emigrate and are going to. She wasn’t asking about whether emigration was possible for her family, she was asking those who have experience of this what destinations they would recommend.

“It does not make life any cheaper when you get there though, which seems to be the crux of OPs problem (especially private/international school fees).”

No, but a significantly higher wage and competitive taxation can make those things much more affordable.

This sounds quite doable (from career and language perspective), and is quite a well trodden path for UK doctors in recent years. It seems that pay and working conditions are much better in this sector in Oz. A GP local to us moved his family over there and they had a good time, but decide to come back after about three years because they missed home and extended family etc. Lots of people emigrate permanently though too. Housing is expensive, but if you have a much higher income that should not be a problem. My cousin who recently moved back to the UK from OZ said COL is lower here for groceries etc in her experience, so a bit different to PPs view. Private school fees are much cheaper, unless you want a very exclusive education. Most schools are Australian Curriculum, but a few offer iGCSEs and A-Levels. However, if you are not planning on returning there's no need to follow a UK curriculum.

Do make sure to understand what extra costs you will have as temporary (initially anyway) visa holders and how long this lasts. Lots of things (such as education) are not automatically free during that period, even though you are paying taxes. Or it certainly was the case until recently - I have family who moved there. Some of whom also moved back recently for climate, family and cultural reasons. It's a heck of a long way away, but no problem if you are not going to miss family and friends. My parents actually emigrated there in the early 1970s, but ultimately came back because my mum missed home and her family - much to my dad's ongoing disappointment! He actually returned on his own for 6 weeks when I was four years old to keep his visa open. They never moved back, but I spent my whole early childhood nervous that we would be taken to the other side of the world tbh. Not the best feeling for children to have imo. However, it is much cheaper and easier to stay in touch nowadays with voice and video calls, even if a hug from grandma is a 24 hour journey (and expensive flight ticket) away.

The other plus is that the AusDollar has tanked recently against the GBP, so this would make it easier to fund set-up costs.

Certainly agree with your point about significantly higher wages making this more realistic, with the proviso of COL and taxes not also being relatively higher.

From that point of view a PPs suggestion of Australia is pretty good, since medical professionals are relatively well paid there compared to here, and private school fees are considerably cheaper on average. Only OP knows if it is too far from friends and family though - and if they like the climate. Ime distance from "home" is often the breaking factor for emigration from UK to Australia. However, many stay long term and are happy.

I don’t believe she’s unlikely to find that at all tbh.

I’ve lived in Europe, the UK and the US. I don’t currently live in the UK and have no intention to do so again, given that I do indeed have a better quality of life outside of it.

Just to add a point to consider with regard to Australia if you/your kids have any disabilities or ALN. This can make getting a visa more difficult, and the pathway to permanent residency is not so easy - obviously affected by the severity of any disability/ALN. They seem to be quite strict on this point. Basically you will have to cover all disability/ALN related costs, which can add up to a lot if it involves regular SLT and OT etc. Services can also be patchy/thin on the ground, but this is also true in the UK ime. Just something to keep in mind if relevant to your family.

Good luck & let us know where you decide to move to!

I’m not saying this is a goady post designed to whip up the usual fears about Britain being a dangerous hellhole and the Labour government penalising the rich blah blah blah, but for someone who claims to be “born and bred in England” your posts do have peculiar syntax.

Ha - I thought the same too- also rather strange comments on the first post like ‘he is in top 1% of earners ‘ and then ‘we don’t receive benefits’ -

that kind of speaks for itself if you are in the top 1%

im rather cynical these days that there’s a lot of subliminal ‘influencing going on -

I do get that people can feel this way about moving - my H would like to move back to Europe next year having had a 2 year spell 2020 to 2022 in Denmark , but in our case reason for reconsidering is it’s due to Brexit having caused issues in our company that we can rectify quite easily if living there and our income would improve again and the fact he can’t stand the idea that a significant number of voters seem to think Farage talks sense -and he woukd rather pay his tax elsewhere too if Farage gets in - maybe it’s better if we do indeed just accept we don’t fit in with this mentality - we aren’t huge ‘lefties’ either.

if OP is genuine then I understand an underlying feeling- however I don’t understand the reasoning given - just go back to work part time or something, move to somewhere less money - we live in Bath- it’s not exactly a hell hole , great state and private schools , I dont think anywhere will be high standards, low tax that doesn’t have very particular issues and may suit OP - Switzerland maybe ? But that isn’t cheap to live , same applies to Singapore and Dubai - tax is low because it’s all added on what you use/do . I’ve known people think they would be loaded in these places and ended up spending just as much on overall living- not sure he would actually earn considerably more in Australia and it certainly isn’t cheap - you too are vulnerable OP if anything went wrong marriage wise in Aus- you can’t automatically move away and can be difficult with little support and whether you could work or not - or get work as you’ve been out the workplace a good while

Remember if you go you won’t get an entitlement to a full British state pension and it won’t keep up with inflation if you live abroad.

To be in the top 10% of salaries in the UK you need to earn over 65k GBP, the equivalent in the USA is over £155k GBP. I would go to the USA, slightly higher costs but incomes are much better.

Australia also a good shout. Salaries are falling Dubai, housing costs are rising and it's hard to get into a good school (shit schools are easy to get into but not sure that would be what you are looking for?). Abu Dhabi and Riyadh - renting and schools are trickier than Dubai.

That's not true. You pay in national insurance minimum amount (few pounds a week - more than an unemployed person pays in) and you qualify.

How about putting your children in a great state school, of which there are many. Imagine all the savings you could make. England performs very well on the international standings for education, unlike many other European countries. Think about your food shopping and looking at cheaper supermarkets, don’t eat out too often. But the bottom line is your school fees.

The main draw for British nationals to APAC is far superior day to day lifestyle with more variety, less time indoors, better weather, better access to varied terrains and nature, a plethora of restaurants at a low cost, manageable accommodation costs, excellent affordable public transport, no need to continuously buy flashy cars as nobody sees them as everyone gets around by public transport, and a sociable close knit expat community.

The main thing that brings them back is missing there uk social circle and family, and the Apac (esp. East Asia) education environment - which is very strict and competitive, flanked by an international school sector which is not uniformly good.

As @cityanalyst678 points out, good UK state comprehensive schools (often ex-grammars) outperform APAC international schools (as well as many UK independent and boarding schools) so should be viewed in terms of their monetary value when compared to the fee paying options - upwards of £150k per child for secondary alone. If you are able to tutor your child to pass the 11+ for a state grammar, you save £300k per child as they often outperform international schools and high performing independent fee paying day and boarding schools, which is why people wait for 11+ results before shunting their kids off to boarding.

You must also then consider UK university fees. These are cheaper if you are a local student than if you are an international student - which you will be if you child isn't in the UK for three years before starting university. You could be looking at a 2-4x uplift, so your child being a UK resident could save you another £80k.

So, £230-380k per saved per child by staying here, but you have to live in grey cloud and rain for most of the year, have a surprisingly narrow selection of restaurants, have to fly somewhere to reliably see the sun and to enjoy varied terrains and nature, wonder why people think driving a new car is so important, and have to hear the most depressing news about political agitation on a daily basis. Quite the choice!

It's often the same people that do stints in one part of APAC then another, so many of the expats in East-Asia find their way to Australia when they retire for more of the same but slower, easier, and a little more expensive.

Why don’t you take a look at Switzerland? It’s a stunning country, not too far away and you’ll find it easy to work with both speaking fluent French and German. I have no idea how difficult it would be to obtain visas to move there, but it would be my first choice were I in your position. Apologies if Switzerland has already been mentioned, I haven’t read the entire thread.

You don't work though, so probably aren't paying any tax.

Australia sounds great, but just be sure your marriage is strong enough to take the move, as you would not be able to leave with the children if anything did go wrong.
(I know a few people stuck there after divorces)

This idea that Australia “traps” people after a divorce - it’s just that they actually follow The Hague Convention. It’s not some random Australian law. The idea is that a parent can’t just take their child away from their habitual place of residence on the breakdown of a relationship.

It does sometimes mean that women have to stay if their husbands don’t want them to leave with their children, but it also prevents men from
abducting their children as well.

The PP is correct in saying that the UK State Pension is not index linked if you live in Australia when you draw it. This has a massive negative impact over time due to inflation.

It is index linked if you emigrate to the EU or Switzerland for example.

Yes, I read articles about people moving abroad, not realising the pension amount was frozen, and didn’t increase. It came as quite a shock to them.

Thanks for that - I was about to google and check that out , as we may well go to Netherlands or Sweden for a good few years and are 61 and 63 at moment

If he’s in finance look at Hong Kong or Singapore. Maybe HK preferable given comment about heat in Dubai- HK has hot summers but temperate winters. There are still opportunities in finance for westerners although fewer now due to requirements for mandarin.

Please check the Gov.uk website for the specifics in your case, and take profesdional advice if necessary. Depending on internet randoms (like me!) for veracity of information is incredibly risky.

Hope you enjoy your retirement!

@gairyes will be doing, I never rely on one source but your post has made me think to check - sadly not retiring yet for a good few years - I say sadly - we have a business in an interesting industry that I can ramp up/wind down as needed and flexible time- so am happy continuing

OP says he’s in medical

@FrauPaige I agree with a lot of your points, especially regarding cost of education! I think you laid it all out very rationally and lots for the OP to consider from your helpful post. Now I'm going to wade in with anecdotes ;))

In my case, the APAC destinations I was in were definitely not easy ones for many expat families due to pollution, nature destruction, authoritarian regimes, difficulty in mastering local languages etc. (and were considered 'hardship posts' at the time - even though they had scrapped the 'hardship payment'). However, it certainly made for exciting and varied times for us as adults! I waited until I was back in Europe to have DC for those reasons. So I think it can be a very very mixed bag as far as APAC postings are concerned - some fabulous, some dreadful and a lot in between.

With regards to cars etc, I find it really odd that people feel the need to signal status in this way, but accept that I am probably the odd one out here. A lot of expat families I knew in Beijing had a driver because their company did not allow driving (insurance risk), but this may have changed in the meantime. It was also necessary for them to get from their "villas" in the suburbs. We chose to live very very centrally and used public transport/taxis/bikes, but the roads were pretty dangerous tbh. Not comparable to HK, Tokyo etc.

Accommodation for expats was also not cheap, unless you were happy to live in very poor conditions, and back then foreigners were not allowed to rent completely freely either. This has probably changed now though. The prices were shocking last time I went (2017) - friends were paying more for their apartment in Zone 2 than we were paing for a bigger city flat next to a lake in a very expensive part of Central Switzerland. Their place was not value for money at all (but normal for Beijing), but their life was a lot more exciting for sure!

Apart from a good friend who still lives in Shanghai, the thing I miss most from my days there is the food. It was fabulous and varied, and eating out was possible at all price ranges. I'm a real foodie and loved it!

Ah sorry- missed that