All-girls school

[Gerranium]

DD is 6 and DH have started, in a very casual way, to talk about where she might go to secondary school. These aren’t firm decisions, obviously, just chatting about what we might want, so we’re forearmed in a few years when we do have make choices.

DH’s preference is for DD to go to an all-girls school - it’s a state school but selective, she’d have to sit and pass the 11-plus.

In fairness, it’s an exceptional school but I’m concerned about it being all-girls from a social perspective. DH is of completely the opposite
view - the main reason he likes it is because it’s all girls. When I ask why, he just says he knows what boys are like.

Is anyone being unreasonable?

I had this exact concern with my daughter about going to an all girls school, worried about social interaction etc. She is now in her second year there and thriving, it has been brilliant for her so far. She has 2 close friends who go to a mixed school and the tales they tell - a lot of it centres around boys, who their latest crush is on and how disruptive it is.

However, we have loosely discussed her moving to a mixed school for A-Levels - we feel it would be beneficial at that point, before uni/work or whatever it is she decides to do (& her current school has a very small 6th form).

I went to an all girls school and enjoyed it.

However:

Gender stereotypes were actually more prevalent than in mixed schools I later taught in.

Some "traditionally male" / typically male dominated subjects simply weren't offered at A level most years due to very low take up, and even at GCSE very few girls chose single science physics - and subjects like design and technology weren't offered at all (home economics was although the school mainly focused on traditional academic subjects).

Like another poster I was excruciatingly self conscious around boys/ young men until I started "dating" and then eventually was a bit too confident in that aspect but only had female friends... I was fine with strictly professional work colleague interaction after university but didn't get the hang of opposite sex friendships until I was heading towards middle age.

I think that girls with close in age brothers or mixed sex hobbies/ social circles outside school mostly avoided the last problem, but it was quite common for girls who had not much to do with boys their age outside school.

Like a lot of things there are pros and cons - "studies have shown" girls are generally more academically successful in single sex school, but I've never looked at the studies and don't know whether they compare like with like in terms of more (most?) single sex schools being either private or selective or both. The kind of family who choose single sex school would also surely be a factor distorying results, unless they're adjusted for not only household income but also somehow attitude to education...

I hate the argument that girls schools aren't a good choice because girls are bitchy. I don't think it's true but if it was true, then surely if girls are bitchy they are still going to be bitchy in a mixed school? At least in a girls school, there are more of them so your DD is more likely to meet some who are nice friends

It very much depends on the individual school, but friends who have DDs at selective all girls schools say it can be quite intense, but that's because of the academic pressure rather than the fact it's all girls. But some girls thrive on that. I agree with the PP who said single sex up to Y11 and then mixed sixth form is a good option.

I went to an all girls’ school: it was the best thing academically and set me up for a successful and empowered professional life. It was the worst thing socially and took me many years to overcome.

My DC are at co-ed schools. I supplement academics as and when required and my DD learns from me all the empowerment she needs. There’s nothing a parent can do about social dynamics, bullying, over-sexualization, eating disorders, extreme bitchiness, cliqueyness etc (for girls, different issues for boys).

As a former secondary school English teacher, I think it does certainly help social integration; but for the 11-16s, they grow up at very different rates. It's quite hard to find the sort of novels and plays they both enjoy at this stage, and girls are often more settled in the classroom. By Year 12 and 13, it's no longer a problem: they are fine. (But even literary boys can balk at cissy Jane Austen!)

Exactly. And what often happens is curriculum choices are made that suit boys over girls.

(But even literary boys can balk at cissy Jane Austen!)

So did most of the girls in my A level English group!

All girls is a very good choice for girls both academically and socially. Imagine her having a voice in class and the confidence that will bring her for the rest of her life.

My mum (secondary school teacher) was always very very anti single sex schools until probably the last 5 or so years where she changed her mind. She now says that if my sisters and I were school age now, she’d want us in an all girls school due to the sexual harassment the female students at her school (and a lot of schools) endure.

My dd chose to go to a very good girls comprehensive state school. She absolutely loves it. She did not enjoy being educated alongside boys at primary school- the boys seemed to have particularly bad behaviour problems and even at age 11 there was a lot of very crude and unpleasant language. She didn’t appreciate her classmates making wanking gestures in class or talking about sex and she figured the problem would only get worse as they got older - I suspect she was right.

She has not been bullied or witnessed bullying, and overall it doesn’t seem bitchy in her year - perhaps she has just been lucky. She has a really large group of friends. Her confidence and academic ability have really blossomed and she is doing particularly well in maths and science.

She plans to go to a mixed sixth form college and I will let her choose if that’s what she wants.

Socially of course I worry that she might not really be able to engage with boys as well as she might have at a mixed school. But dd does a mixed sport outside school every week and so she sees teenaged boys there. I hope it’s enough!

PS your dd doesn’t have boys to distract at a girls school of course, but lots of girls are dating girls at my DD’s school so be prepared for that possibility.

They’re not perfect but on balance glad both our girls went. They are shielded from some of the early teen grim behaviour of some boys. Second Dd just finished year 11 and both girls agreed it was a good school. Think mixed sixth form a good idea to mix it up .

My DD went to a mixed school but really wanted to go to a single sex school for sixth form. Though it was better in GCSE years as she was mostly in the top sets and found they boys better behaved, she otherwise found the boys a pita. She said the teachers had to dorms too much time dealing with the boys, and in occasion she was put in between disruptive boys so they might behave better!
I think research had shown girls tend to do better in a single sex environment and boys in a mixed one.

If I had daughters I would never in a million years send them to a girls school.
Me and my sisters went to a girls school. None of us got bullied and we all have friends from school. We are all social and have friends from uni, work, old neighbours etc as well but just saying there were no friendship issues.

The major issue was that many of the girls had much older “boyfriends” eg age 23. They didn’t meet or know any boys their own age so ended up being targeted. It was the majority of the year not an odd few. Also it’s harder to relate to the male population if none of your friends are male. I have been in abusive relationship after relationship.

The girls may get slightly better grades at an all girls school but is it really worth the risk. It’s personal choice but I would move house rather than even consider sending my (hypothetical) daughter to a girls school if that was our local school.

I'd be concerned that DH's motivation is to keep her away from boys rather than find the best educational fit for DD, but I think it's a bit too early to worry about yet at 6.

However, how is DD going to learn "what boys are like" if she is not mixing with them on a daily basis before 18? The wildest boy-mad group of girls I ever met were 16/17 year old All Girls school teens. It was a real eye opener. They were lovely girls whom I really clicked with, but rabidly boy mad! As a mixed school pupil I really could not see the attraction to the same degree. Familiarity bred a certain amount of realism (if not contempt) in my case.

I always thought I wouldn’t send DD to a single sex school (currently both kids are at the local primary).

But having seen the constant low level sexism that girls are exposed to I have changed my mind. It started with the “normal” kind of stuff from around 5 or 6 - boys telling girls that they aren’t allowed to play football at break time or teasing them for liking dinosaurs. But as they got older, instead of the boys, growing out of it, it got more disturbing. By the time my oldest was in Year 5, we had a situation where some boys were muttering misogynistic comments to girls who spoke up in class or writing derogatory notes and passing them around so other girls could see. Boys were telling girls in DT to let the boys to use tools as they wouldn’t be able to manage it. A couple of girls (not mine) got deliberately injured by boys at break time when they were beating them in ballgames ( like twisting an arm behind their back, deliberately throwing a ball at their face). I complained to the teacher a few times - she had a stern word, but the boys just got more subtle. The girls are afraid to report incidents themselves because of potential repercussions. The school has done assemblies on gender equality - the boys who are behaving like this aren’t listening.

Of course only a minority of the boys behave like that, and most of them are great kids and treat the girls with respect, but it only takes a couple of boys like this to ruin the class experience and undermine the girls’ confidence. And this is while they are too young for other issues like sexual harassment.

I’d now like my daughter to have a few years of education where she can be as geeky, as sporty, as handy, or as outspoken as she feels like being without her behaviour being policed by boys. Does it reflect real society - no, and not least because real society, as we all know, is misogynistic. Will it benefit her to have that “real” experience of misogyny at 12? I don’t think so. She’ll have to put up with it at some point, but I’d rather it was not while she is still working out who she is and what her place in the world should be. Would it benefit her to have male friendships - of course, and it does right now, but to me it isn’t worth it if it comes with all the other shit.

That was my thinking and it’s paid off.

I think the pp with the older boyfriend issue that must have been time and place specific both mine have just left a state girls school neither them nor any girl we know had an older boyfriend.

There are downsides but sadly in our society think the upside outweighs it.