Ban male nursery workers?

[BluntPlumHam]

I came across this article which has left me quite sick.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cze665j2y51o.amp

Said 18 year old was newly qualified nursery worker who’d SA’d and raped 3 year olds.

Nurseries are desperate for workers and I have noticed through friends and families that there is now an increasing number of men entering the profession.

Men traditionally haven’t performed this role and I often find it difficult to envisage what attracts a male to this profession to begin with when we have so many instances of men who run away from childcare responsibilities.

Although men entering the profession can be a positive outcome the other very concerning outcome and on the potential rise is this.

Sex offenders will target this profession no doubt as it gives them easy access to children.

men are significantly more likely than women to sexually assault children.
Official statistics consistently show that the vast majority of individuals convicted of, or reported for, child sexual abuse (CSA) are male. For example:

• In the year ending March 2019, the Crime Survey for England and Wales found that 92% of adults who reported experiencing CSA said the perpetrator was male only.
• In 2022/23, almost 99% of individuals convicted of child sexual abuse offences in the UK were men.
• Reports to the Australian Royal Commission by victims and survivors of institutional abuse revealed that 93.9% of the abuse was perpetrated by an adult man.

So just a blanket ban on them all together ?

It isn’t my personal opinion but I do think we ought to have measures in place to make nurseries more secure and safer. This thread is to invite discussion.

Also, kudos to those brave little 3 year olds who had the courage to tell their parents because they’ve saved a lot of potential victims in the future. My thoughts and wishes for a life time of healing for them and theirs.

Nothing sexist about pointing out the enormous disparity between the rate at which men and women commit violent and sexual offenses. As long as men commit these crimes at vastly higher rates than women they can expect a high degree of scrutiny. Is that a shame for the "good guys"? Sure, but the blame lies with other men, not the parents who can see the statistics.

Sorry Adimack but taking personal offence at women voicing concerns about the pervasiveness of child abuse by males doesn't help anyone and is a bit narcissistic in my opinion. No-one is saying it's all men but it is almost always men rather than women. Small children are safer with unrelated women than unrelated men - fact.

Direct your anger and attention at the men who abuse children not the women voicing concerns about male abuse.

You can't. It's discrimination and it doesn't sit right with me really either. I don't trust men on the whole. Statistically that's wise.

Men who want to abuse children will gain jobs like this so they can abuse children. Happens all the time. Funnily enough predators are attracted to large numbers of potential pray in one area having daily access to them and being paid. Funny that.

But you can't blanket ban men from entering the profession.

I wouldn't hire one if I managed a nursery. I'd find some way not to and not say 'I'm not hiring you because you are a man.'

I'd not send my child to a nursery with a male worker. I'd not send a non-verbal child to nursery full stop anyway. My daughter's teacher is a male, but I don't find that the same.

I think there's bigger problems with nurseries anyway. Paying people minimum wage and letting them care day to day for children without a professional qualification and wage is a joke. They're our most precious beings, but the job isn't given the gravity it should. Same with elderly care.

Exactly. It's disgusting that caring for the most vulnerable is not given the respect it deserves.

I agree that we should treat childcare as the serious and important job that it is. I also agree that the risk:benefit ratio changes by school age. I don't think you're right to say you'd not hire a man but seem to think that is somehow something to deny/shy away from for fear of discrimination. I think it's important that we recognise male violence/abuse for what it is if we have any hope of dealing with it.

I agree with @elviswhorleytoo.

Bloody weirdo saw him on the news yesterday.
Hope he gets battered.

I know, it's so dreadfully sexist to acknowledge the fact that men commit 98% of child sexual abuse, and the fact that paedophile rings are aware of the push to have males in early childhood education, and deliberately try to take advantage of that.

To be fair, I think primary school is different to nursery care, as children should be able to toilet themselves, and not be alone with an adult. But considering the massive amounts of institutional sexual abuse committed by men in positions of power across organisations and history, I am sensibly more wary of male teachers with young children.

It's unfortunate for a male teacher who isn't a threat, and who may feel more scrutinised, but frankly, children's safety comes before men's feelings.

Agree wholeheartedly. Ultimately this is a problem with men and the solution needs to come from them rather than expecting women and children to shoulder risk for the sake of other men's feelings.

I can tell you don't work in childcare (or value people who do). It's not incredibly easy to get in too, especially now nurseries are closing down. Five years ago I was applying for nursery roles, as a qualified nursery nurse and it still took over a year.
Most nurseries don't allow lone working and most expect their staff to train for qualifications. You don't get to just start work and have unsupervised access to children. It just doesn't work like that.
As I've said before z yes men are more likely to abuse children that women but most abused happens in the home and is done by family members.
As for all the people asking why men would want to work with children, how ridiculous, would you ask a woman the same question?

It looks easy to get into around me. There are many vacancies within what I would consider a reasonable travel distance. First job that came up when I googled was one that said this:

Ideal Candidate:

• No formal qualifications required, though experience in early years settings is beneficial.
• A passion for working with children and a willingness to learn.
• Empathy and understanding – every child is unique.
• Good communication and team-working skills.

Start your rewarding career in early childhood education today—apply now!

I suspect a male might actually be slightly favoured by some places, one for balance and secondly because of the risk of a sex discrimination case if rejected (quite likely to be subconscious).

As someone else has pointed out there is advice on the dark Web to abusers how to get themselves into these roles.

As I've said before z yes men are more likely to abuse children that women but most abused happens in the home and is done by family members.

If there was one type of car on the road that was causing fifty times as many accidents as any other type of car, would you expect the authorities to say, oh well, they are only causing 1 in 1000 of accidents overall, so that's OK?

So you don't allow any male members of your family around your child then? Including their dad? Just because they haven't been caught doesn't mean they're not an abuser so don't let your child near their father/grandad/ uncle.

With every decision you have to weigh up the risks and the benefits. Children benefit greatly from having relationships with both parents, grandparents etc. Unless a family member is known to be an abuser, then the benefit of having a relationship with them outweighs the risks. It would also be very cruel to separate fathers from their own children. In nursery children will have a key worker who can be male or female, there is no benefit for the child in having a male worker over a female one, but the risk of abuse from a male worker is far higher. Only a tiny number of men even want to work in nurseries, and if nurseries only hired women those men could work in other roles. Imo the risks outweigh the benefits.

Personally, the only male person my children were alone around when younger was their father. I didn't need to orchestrate it, really, it mostly just worked out that way of its own accord. But if I'd had to orchestrate it then I would have, given my own past experience and the enormous impact it had on my life.

You have missed the point completely.

And you would be happy with a male teacher shutting himself away with your child and applying cream to them, just the two of them, alone? I sure as hell wouldn't.

But it's just the age old trope on here, men are simply amazing at working with children and women are just rubbish. I could write a script at this point.

Please point out where I called your parents stupid?

I asked if you would be happy to have a male teacher shut away with your child applying cream to them.

If you leapt to 'stupid' from that, then that's entirely on you.

Some men are amazing in childcare. Some women are amazing too. It's just being pointed out that you shouldn't ban every man from working in childcare. Some women abuse too. So who should be looking after the kids?

That’s a bit odd that they chose a male member of staff to apply the cream

What don't people on this thread understand that your child has at least a 50 times greater chance of being sexually assaulted by a male member of staff than a female one? Possibly more if the profession actually attracts abusers.

The risk of either is very small. But the risk with a woman is 50 times smaller. Fact.

Well every man won't be banned from working in childcare, will they.

Those happy enough to take the increased risk of having a man look after their child are more than welcome to.

It's not risk I would take.

I don't know how long ago this was but it's completely unacceptable for a member of staff of either sex to be alone in a closed room while stroking/massaging the legs of a child!