To remind you all of this BEFORE the Poppy becomes a divisive symbol

[OneAmusedShark]

That in the First and Second World Wars, literally hundreds as thousands of black and Asian people fought for Britain.

They answered the call, as volunteers, to fight in the trenches side by side with white British soldiers.

Soldiers from Africa, the Caribbean and what is now India, Pakistan and Bangladesh.

Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs…
they all did their bit.

Winston Churchill is on record praising them. He said “The bravery of Indian soldiers, both Hindu and Muslim, is unparalleled in the history of warfare”,

Don’t forget also the Eastern Europeans who fought the Nazis alongside us,
especially the Polish airmen.

And remember this, when the Americans came over with their segregated units,
and tried to impose segregation in local pubs and cafes near where they were stationed, Churchill refused to assist them.

Remember the Battle of Bamber Bridge where white US military police tried to stop black troops from drinking in certain pubs, and the local British population sided with the black troops.

So if you’re white British, next time you see someone of African, Caribbean or Asian heritage, just remember that their Grandfather or Great Grandfather or Great Great Grandfather may have fought alongside yours in WW1 or WW2.

When we wear the Poppy,
we remember ALL of them and give thanks for their sacrifice.

Just one point.
America joined in because they were attacked at Pearl Harbour. Up to that point their President had only been thinking about it.
Let's not pretend they did it to be helpful. I am not in any way dismissing the losses they suffered in case you think I don't care. I do.

Not to me it hasn't. It is so we remember the ultimate sacrifice of those who laid down their lives in war. It is also a reminder of just how appalling war is, and how much suffering it causes. Nothing pro war in that.

I also wear the purple poppy, to remember those animals who served and lost their lives in war. Nobody in their right minds could think that remembering the horrific slaughter of 8 million horses was pro war.

People may know but it’s often overlooked and forgotten

Honestly I believe there are many people who have no idea that people of different religions/nationalities fought alongside 'us' - the 'white' British army etc.

Only by absolute dickheads who don’t know their history. The second anyone claims it’s glorifying war, you can walk away from them, safe in the knowledge that they are idiots.

oops I hit unreasonable in error .

totally agree OP

Hang on @lazyarse123 who do you mean by “they”? You must distinguish between the political state and individuals. Canada joined the UK in WW2 in 1939. Many American men voluntarily joined Canadian military forces specifically to fight against Germany before they were called up.

The attack on Pearl Harbour was December 1941 but Roosevelt had introduced the draft in late 1940, so by the time of the attack there were around 2 million men who had already been drafted and were being trained for combat.

I would never ever wear a poppy as an Irish person, I see it as a symbol of empire

YABU. This feels like a pointless, sanctimonious lecture against white people.

Nobody disputes that many people other than white British fought in the wars, nor does it have anything to do with the poppy.

.

It isn’t, and never has been, a pro war symbol!

Agree. And Australian Aboriginal people, Māori people and Pacific Islanders.

A few days after Soldier F was found not guilty of murder and attempted murder after he and his colleagues in the Parachute Regiment fired on civilians they knew were unarmed as they ran away on the streets of Derry in 1972, and the poppy isn’t a ‘divisive symbol’?

Most normal people know this OP. If you watch the festival of remembrance service on the tv it is representative of all colours and nationalities of people who fought and died serving this country, and the stories are very moving. People who claim otherwise are wilfully ignorant and have a mindset that will never be changed.

I buy a red poppy to remember all who served and my great uncle who died at the Somme. I care not a jot about others opinions about what I choose to do.

The Royal British Legion charity does practical things to help veterans. Some large charities raise a lot of money but don’t really offer practical help.

People forget UK had an empire and I met soldiers from India who were proud to be in the British Army. The Gurkhas are much loved in Wales. The polish free fighters and airmen, the black GI’s who found that they could integrate freely. The Russians actually won the Eastern front, we don’t really acknowledge that properly. The whole history we were told is the white British & American troops won the war in WW2. But it was women who made the weapons, it was women who manned the guns protecting the spitfire plant in Birmingham, there was even a black airman in RAF who flew with the rest of his crew.

Your op comes across to me as painfully patronising tbh op , so for that reason you're being unreasonable.

The poppy is used as a symbol because of the poem In Flanders Fields by John McCrae.
This is the last verse.
How is it not pro-war?

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

Ummm no. If anything it’s an anti war symbol. How does this happen you think the poppy is pro war? Do the RBL encourage governments to start wars? Do they have huge campaigns saying “war is good”? Do you even know why we have the poppy and what the RBL and the Haig foundation stand for?

The RBL mostly supports professional soldiers now, not those who fought in the world wars. That obviously makes a difference to how people view it.

I think that in Britain, the poppy is worn firmly in the context of remembrance. It is a time to remember the individual men who fought ( brothers, uncles, fathers, grandfathers) and the collective loss of lives ( the unknown soldiers) - it is very much part of a rite of remembrance of human life lost. It is nearly always viewed in that context by people here and has been as long as I remember.

In Ireland, Irish soldiers who fought for Britain were shamed by the state who officially apologised in 2012/2013 for considering them deserters and blacklisting them from jobs when they returned. This was because Ireland was experiencing its own internal changes due to independence and civil war at the time and needed to maintain neutrality.

In the context of NI, I think some people feel the poppy was used to separate out groups based on sectarian affiliation and so it became associated with a different meaning.

My experience is that a symbol that was meant as a mark of respect has been held in that position by the sheer number of people in Britain who wear it to remember a deceased family member -it’s personal but it also extends to recognising everyone was someone’s son or father or brother and is very much used here to recognise the human cost of war. It can, like anything, be viewed through a different lense, but basing your critique of other peoples use on the lense you choose to view it through is about something else - it’s no longer about remembrance in the context it was meant or has been upheld through decades of genuine loss - we have never celebrated war in this country as a state, we have always acknowledged it but our commerations are always solemn and reflective in tone.

I think if the remembrance could be achieved without supporting the RBL it would be better at this stage. The remembrance is the important part and isn’t in the least bit controversial. It’s necessary.

Supporting the present British Army is the controversial part for some people. Also the insistence on poppy wearing in some sectors causes problems and why some shy away from it.

It becomes a bit like the flag issue though, doesn’t it? Certain groups dominate the message over those who have always believed in a different intent behind its use.

This year I visited a museum in Europe that had an exhibition about how graves of unknown soldiers are still being discovered from the WWs. A specialist team investigates to attempt to find the correct name of that person & to contact their living relatives. If possible a correct name & burial is performed. All soldiers are
given the same dignity (no sides are taken)

I have visited similar museums in Asia too.

If you look at the world map, you will see why it was called WORLD War.

I will be wearing my red poppy in memory of everyone who gave their lives or support in the past for my freedom now. (all genders & animals)

Lest We Forget

But the flag is solely about belief.
Those who buy poppies to remember are literally supporting the RBL at the same time. They’re intertwined at this stage.

Many people are happy to support the RBL of course, but others aren’t…and they’re then accused of not wishing to honour those who sacrificed so much in the WWs, which is very far from the truth of it.
So it’s complicated.