A 1p / 2p raise to income tax should lawfully trigger a general election

[TesChique]

There are vague promises in manifestos, and there are those which are explicit and should be binding except in exceptional circumstances (war etc)

If labour, or any party reneges on a core manifesto promise it should lawfully trigger a general election

They have lied to the public.

AIBU to think we need to see this change in law?

I would be fine with a rise if it could be
ring fenced locally - for example my daughters state primary is struggling under weight of budget cuts by this government and would be keen to see tax increases go yo specific local causes. I know that in reality is impossible, but I think many wouod be happier to pay more in if could see positive consequences in public services. At the moment it feels like is just going into a big black hole

And how do you build long-term, sustainable growth on the backs of a workforce who can’t see a doctor so aren’t fit to work, whose kids can’t get CAHMS appointments or specialist school places, taking one or both parents out of the economy, who can’t get secure, moderately priced rental housing- so are moving yearly as the landlords stick the rents up?

Thats before we get onto the Gen Alphas who have grown up in the highest levels of child poverty, and food and housing insecurity, we’ve seen for decades, thanks to Tory austerity and benefits cuts so extreme, the UN attempted an intervention?

We need to increase taxes, improve public services and the reinstate a real welfare safety net. We need to invest in education, health and housing, and we’re going to have to pay for it somehow. There is no other sane or rational alternative (putting aside the moral imperative).

I’m in a similar position, I resent the option of paying 62% tax so my pension does very well at the moment. That will probably get restricted too!

I agree they don’t have the guts re the Triple Lock.

So working people never go to A&E when it's not an emergency? Working people don't binge drink and end up in A&E? They never drive like an idiot and cause a car crash needing police involvement? They never commit crimes? They never litter? They never need benefits? They never have housing association homes? They never have a mental health crisis? They never cause society any costs above the average Joe?

Of course they bloody do.

This is such an ignorant post.

We live in a world where economics and social issues change daily. No one can promise anything.

1p isn’t really that much. We need better services . Everyone whinges. Farmers, house owners, landlords, the money has to come from somewhere.

Money spent by the government is either paid for by debt our children will carry or by us. In the form of taxes.

How much do we keep heaping on our dc though? Particularly as they are a shrinking proportion of society.

We already have more over 65s than under 15s, logically it's not going to work.

I’d say the first line applies here.

Your more tax isn’t working. It didn’t after the last budget which is why Labour need to come back for more.

The income tax thresholds are the same was my point. You’re structuring your tax to minimise the income tax element.

@LittleBearPad it's all so depressing. My work would like me to increase my hours as my role is a FT one but it's not worth it for me.

As a tax professional, and from a purely mathematical standpoint, a rise in income tax by 1-2p does make good sense.

Making tweaks to inheritance tax and CGT is all very well, but they simply don't raise enough to make any real difference.

If you need to raise money quickly - and I don't think there's any arguing that this country is in a significant amount of debt - then you need to raise income tax, VAT, or NICs. Two thirds of our tax take comes from these three alone. Corporation tax is about 10% - you'd have to raise it truly punitively to make any kind of dent in the debt. IHT and CGT make up around 5% - a tiny amount.

It doesn't matter what political persuasion you are, lefty liberal or diehard Reform, we're in debt and it needs addressing.

Don't be silly.

The Tories left such a god-awful mess that it was obvious tax rises would be needed, though it was equally obvious why any party with serious hopes of getting into government could not admit to it. In effect, this is what the electorate chose when it elected Johnson.

What is the alternative anyway? The party that caused the mess in the first place? The party that will sell off the NHS and make us all pay for health care?

We need to increase taxes, improve public services and the reinstate a real welfare safety net. We need to invest in education, health and housing, and we’re going to have to pay for it somehow. There is no other sane or rational alternative (putting aside the moral imperative).

But we also need to determine what that ‘welfare safety net’ looks like. What is the state actually going to pay for? What should it pay for?

Lol, we didn't get an election to kick out the tories when they lied and lied about brexit did we? That cause far more damage to this country, some people still stick their heads in the sand as to how much and want to vote Farage for even more rubbish that will further ruin this country.

No. Can have an election when due, that's how it works.

In the case of the so-called 22 billion black hole, that really isn't true. The OBR and the IFS were explicitly clear about the state of finances so Labour's mock-surprise about the defecti they'd suddenly found down the back of the sofa was purely performative.

I think Rachel Reeves is entirely out of her depth now but Keir's stuck with her in case the bond markets take fright. I would have admired Labour much more if they hadn't made those manifesto promises and been forthright. They would have won by a country mile anyway. I'm resigned to paying more in tax but resent the hell out of propping up the bottomless pit of the NHS yet again without any meaningful reform.

@TiredofLDN you are right that we need higher taxes to fund all those things & sustainable growth does depend on a healthy strong workforce with the public services to support that. However this income tax rise can't support that, our model is completely dysfunctional. We haven't invested in young people and dc for years hence why poverty amongst dc has increased. Our tax system cannot support a NHS model, state pension and the triple lock; no country pays in so little to pay so much out. We have an ageing population so our dependency ratio is not sustainable. As I said a lot of this income tax increase will be used just to fund the triple lock....

I’m not suggesting calling an election after a broken promise😂

The country is bankrupt. What would be your brilliant suggestion?

I kind of agree with a small income tax rise but single people on minimum wage, are entitled to very little in benefits.1% would only be like £5 a week but when you have very little money to budget with as it is, it's just going to make it harder. Minimum wage isn't enough to live on.

But we also need to determine what that ‘welfare safety net’ looks like. What is the state actually going to pay for? What should it pay for?

Very difficult conversations but we need to have them.

No you just want more taxes as per, it’s high already. Forever demanding.

‘Bankrupt’ look back at the last woeful budget, and don’t do that. Be better at economics is my suggestion.

No we bloody aren’t. How ridiculous. If you mean Elon and Vance are obsessed with us, have a read of 1984. It’s all “look over there, don’t look over here!”

It's not unlikely that people who have found a loophole to pay less National Insurance than the rest of us on the same earnings will find that loophole blocked.

You can tell what a lot of extra cash they've been pocketing by the loudness of their squeals.

’Be better at economics’ 😂sure. You mean your version of economic.

Im voting Green next time. I really like their policy of kicking all private landlords out of the housing sector.

1984 good call. We didn’t say we wouldn’t increase taxes, wipe that.

No, the US is the laughing stock. They voted for Trump.

Manifestos are not a legally binding document.
A parliamentary term is five years - things happen and a government has to respond to that, not be bound to a document written a few years ago.

There is not more special about a manifesto statement on income tax any more than a statement on any other kind of tax. Or any other policy.
Do you want an election if they change their minds on VAT? Or CGT?