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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

But is Berlin is the best capital?

95 replies

fourhundredandten · 29/10/2025 18:38

I have been blown away by the laid back artistic vibe, the efficiency and good value of the public transport (does anyone know - do if most travellers have tickets as have yet to see any inspections/control measures), the great food and the excellent coffee. There are lots of little affordable independent shops and the kind of cute or ethical or creative spaces that have long been priced out of our (country?) cities.

I was in a random city centre cafe and the man left to me left his bag and laptop and went to the toilet. I could see his wallet! He sauntered back eventually and I couldn’t remember when I would have been able to do that. I bought a good bottle of whisky from a supermarket and couldn’t find the tag - because there wasn’t one. My city centre is the Wild West compared to here and while I have seen some homelessness there have been very few and compared to the people by me they look either much better supported or far less advanced in addiction.

Bikes everywhere and cars super observant of the wheels and pedestrians. I would move here tomorrow if I could. AIBU to think this is the best city or this holiday vision?

OP posts:
Mikart · 31/10/2025 07:28

My least favourite city. I love WW2 history but i just didn't enjoy it. My dad bombed it in 1944 so maybe it's that!
Stayed in a great hotel..Art'hotel

fourhundredandten · 31/10/2025 07:46

No it’s not I mean it’s often creative or funny or quirky it isn’t as glaring as a few giant tags on a Victorian building would be where I live. One of my children was a bit confused by it and said about how where we are seemed like a nice area so why was there graffiti- and why did you never see anyone do it. Quickly it stops signifying what it does at home although there are area differences even to graffiti. In some places I can’t decide if it’s graffiti or actual planned street art so grand is the scale. I mean I didn’t like the huge testament to the ultras but there were artistic rebuttals too. I suppose it suits a canvas where communities had to find ways to voice and share revolutionary ideas and one where the blocky architecture has often replace originals. I suppose in places that have seen so much oppression of art and artists evidence of a flourishing counter culture (though I don’t suppose it is any more) seems appropriate.

OP posts:
dynamiccactus · 31/10/2025 08:00

When I went to Berlin in 2015 I gave the DDR museum a miss as the queue was stretching down the road. I don't do queues.

I was there in 2023 and did get in easily that time and felt like it was more of a 1980s museum than a GDR museum in some respects! It wasn't the greatest experience but that was because there was a lingering smell of BO in the air.

Frankfurt isn't an awful city at all, it has a lot to do and if you do need to get out there are lovely small towns around like Kronberg. It's not just bankers and skyscapers!

BlueEyedBogWitch · 31/10/2025 08:12

Never been, but it would have to go a long way to beat Rome. What a city.

EveryMeandEveryYou · 31/10/2025 08:16

Every time I go to Germany I love how the women all look normal - no fillers and botox and fake hair or lashes. They were normal clothes and dress for comfort and warmth, like normal people. I don't feel the same here. Quality over there is a big thing and people know what they expect in fabrics, service, food etc. Here it feels like everything gets a 5* review more for the reviewee to get a free meal or product than to give an actual opinion.

I prefer their attitude over there; sex isn't taboo so it isn't as fetishised in daily life for women to wear porno clothes, intelligence is valued and people know what is healthy and good for them.

fourhundredandten · 31/10/2025 08:26

Women do look more natural though have seen some fillers - most notably on a few gay men who had a very ‘snatched’ look with big lips and plentiful fake freckles. I did see a couple of girls with the huge eyelashes but they were actually British which made me smile. My kids pointed out the relative lack of barbers and nail bars compared to our high streets. Interesting differences.

OP posts:
surreygirly · 31/10/2025 08:51

Love Berlin amazing history and lovely people in my experience
Going there in Feb to see Andre Rieu

EveryMeandEveryYou · 31/10/2025 08:58

fourhundredandten · 31/10/2025 08:26

Women do look more natural though have seen some fillers - most notably on a few gay men who had a very ‘snatched’ look with big lips and plentiful fake freckles. I did see a couple of girls with the huge eyelashes but they were actually British which made me smile. My kids pointed out the relative lack of barbers and nail bars compared to our high streets. Interesting differences.

I found the men were eyeing me up more too - far more than they do here. I think they prefer the natural look. It was very flattering for me, anyway!

We enjoyed the little boho cafes and my friend who lives there said they have had all the same news stories as us with the trans craziness and far right threat of return. It feels like a grown up and wise city but similar enough to London be relaxing. Although I don't think we saw as many banker types as we do in London, certainly less bling in general.

CremeEggThief · 31/10/2025 09:01

YABU.
How can any capital city be "the best"?
Your favourite yes, but it's daft to think everyone should agree on a question like this. 🙄

ohdrearydrearyme · 31/10/2025 09:08

This one's specifically for @ZenNudist although also of course for the OP:

I suspect after what you wrote that I'm falling on deaf ears, and I acknowledge that I am quite easily satisfied, but nonetheless:

If you have kids in tow (depending on their age, of course!), try the science museum. It's in two parts, with the 'Spectrum' part being particularly full of hands-on activities and containing oddities such as a car designed to also function as a boat - just drive it straight into a lake and break out the paddles...

Spoiler, it didn't work as they could never get them watertight enough.

Behind the museum is a long linear park built on what had been railway lines leading out of town from Anhalter Bahnhof. It became obsolete after the Wall was built, but many of the tracks remain.

The Allied Museum in Dahlem is free, is built at the former US military cinema, and has the original Checkpoint Charlie checkpoint building, planes, a GDR watchtower, etc.
To get to it from the U-Bahn (Oskar-Helene Heim), , you are going past a building on your right that was built by the Nazis as Luftwaffe headquarters, then commandeered post-war by the American military as THEIR headquarters. Many of the apartment buildings around are former US military baracks.

One station further out of town on the same line and you are in a housing that looks like a lovely idyll of two storey homes, but was actually built by the Nazis as housing for SS elites.

Plenty of Nazi architecture: the football stadium, or the Finance ministry opposite the Topographie des Terrors which, as other people have said, is definitely worth a visit.
There is also a GDR watchtower tucked in behind Potsdamer Platz.

There's a very large section of memorial/former wall at Bernauer Strasse ( also free).

The Stasi museum, at the former Stasi headquarters, is also worth a visit.

The Communication Museum might be of (low-key) interest. Entry is very cheap and it has a working model of the mail delivery system working with compressed air that was in widespread use before WW2 put an end to it.

Food: I personally find quite a lot of German food dull. However. the whole 'divided city' thing has left an interesting food legacy. The former East brought guest workers from Vietnam, and many are still here as particularly in the East of the city. If you avoid places that are trying to hedge their bets by offering Vietnamese AND Thai AND sushi, and go for places offering only Vietnamese, you are likely to get very good food.
The West had a problem attracting workers to a city surrounded by a wall and sitting within the territory of another country, and dealt with it by importing workers from Turk, Italy, and Yugoslavia. Many of the Italians and Yugoslavians later returned home, though there is still excellent Italian ice cream (though most places have just closed for the season), and quite a high proportion of restaurants featuring food from former Yugoslavia.
The Turks have a LOT of food places with excellent quality food. I'm not just talking about kebabs/döner (although the quality is pretty good there too!), but things like Adana Kebab, gözleme (made on the spot with the filling of your choice and usually sold at businesses specialised in making only that), simit or açma (if you like Turkish breads, these are available at any Turkish grocery store), freshly made Turkish sweets, etc.

Kantstrasse, if you are anywhere near, has a lot of good Chinese and Vietnamese food options, including things like hand-pulled noodles.

ZenNudist · 31/10/2025 09:38

Thanks @ohdrearydrearyme

We leave today but going to take in the east side gallery first. I re-read what I wrote and I sound harsh. I love Germany and the Germans. I like that Berlin feels like "a real place" (compared to say Bruges or old town Dubrovnik which are beautiful but hollow tourist places aping the past.)

I think the problem is my dc. I have a 15yo so nuff said!

Crikeyalmighty · 31/10/2025 10:49

fourhundredandten · 31/10/2025 00:03

Loving the contributions @Noodledog - I am going there tomorrow:) Very much liked the sound of it. I suppose I like the historical so probably that is why I like the old fashioned elements. Probably describes me these days!

it is a funny feeling that other lives sense - Berlin does give a lot of that in different ways

Following on from my thread about why I’m not that keen- it does have amazing museums and sights- but I’ve been so many times( mainly work but stayed for 4 or 5 days) that I’ve been to them all - so as just a walk about /shopping/cafes kind of place - there’s other places in Europe I find a more pleasant and less scruffy ‘ potter’ - which is why it isn’t on my list of ‘best’ - however if someone has never been it’s certainly somewhere to see with a lot to do especially if you like history and museums

LlynTegid · 31/10/2025 10:51

I love Berlin, certainly if you told me I had to live in a capital city in Europe it would be my choice. Unlike France where I would prefer several other places to Paris, Belgium where I would choose Ghent every time, Spain Barcelona and the Netherlands Leiden.

Clearinguptheclutter · 31/10/2025 10:58

Abhannmor · 30/10/2025 17:58

Isn't the easy a bit cheaper though , Leipzig etc. What about Hamburg?

We went to Hamburg in the summer. Quite liked it but it def had a “Manchester”/industrial vibe. Traffic and roadworks everywhere. Has a very pleasant waterfront.

Crikeyalmighty · 31/10/2025 12:11

@LlynTegid Leiden is very nice , very studenty , quite a lot more litter than I’ve seen in Netherlands and an awful lot of cheap stuff ( especially food) that was clearly geared to students - - we were there 10 days ago and although I liked it , I like Haarlem more if I was actually living there ( we stayed in Haarlem and was a bit more candlelit winebars and upscale restaurants- so it’s probably just more ‘me’. , I also really like The Hague and Utrecht too. I also really like Ghent as you mentioned. My take on Berlin as I said earlier is if you like Bristol, you will probably like Berlin or Hamburg - we moved out of Bristol 10 years ago to Bath and hence why personally I prefer places a bit cleaner, less graffiti, less hipster - that’s I think just personal preference - i lived in Copenhagen for 20 months during covid and just after and I think as a ‘liveable’ experience and an overall lifestyle it would take some beating , although expensive and weather not unlike UK ( colder and snowier in winter though)

LlynTegid · 31/10/2025 13:48

Crikeyalmighty · 31/10/2025 12:11

@LlynTegid Leiden is very nice , very studenty , quite a lot more litter than I’ve seen in Netherlands and an awful lot of cheap stuff ( especially food) that was clearly geared to students - - we were there 10 days ago and although I liked it , I like Haarlem more if I was actually living there ( we stayed in Haarlem and was a bit more candlelit winebars and upscale restaurants- so it’s probably just more ‘me’. , I also really like The Hague and Utrecht too. I also really like Ghent as you mentioned. My take on Berlin as I said earlier is if you like Bristol, you will probably like Berlin or Hamburg - we moved out of Bristol 10 years ago to Bath and hence why personally I prefer places a bit cleaner, less graffiti, less hipster - that’s I think just personal preference - i lived in Copenhagen for 20 months during covid and just after and I think as a ‘liveable’ experience and an overall lifestyle it would take some beating , although expensive and weather not unlike UK ( colder and snowier in winter though)

Haarlem would come a close second to Leiden for me, especially with the market there. I studied in Utrecht and likes it as well.

Cannot comment on the Bristol comparison as I have only been there twice, and once was to give evidence in a tribunal.

Crikeyalmighty · 31/10/2025 14:53

@LlynTegid gosh yes, what a great market - I think because I’m older and currently live in a small city fairly dominated by students the fact that Haarlem wasn’t for me was a refreshing change - but to be honest I like all those big towns /small cities in that area of Netherlands - we are still contemplating whether to apply for self employed residents visas there as we do fit the criteria - we enjoyed living in Copenhagen from 20 months , but permanent residence in Denmark isn’t portable elsewhere in EU ( along with Eire they are the only ones it isn’t) and would be nice to have the option of Spain or Italy when retired ( we are early 60s at moment) - husband doesn’t want to go anywhere like that now whilst still working and needing to come back to uk a fair bit - Sweden was our 1st choice but it’s incredibly hard to get in if you work for yourself ( even high earning) and can take forever on a decision - Netherlands more efficient on this .

Reginaesalve · 31/10/2025 15:12

ZenNudist · 30/10/2025 22:15

I am currently in Berlin. I went to Potsdam today. Really unimpressedwith Berlin. I have a lovely hotel in a great area of the city. I enjoyed a pre booked tour of the Reichstag..

I'm honestly really unimpressed. It's easy enough to get about but just so blah and unimpressive.

I liked the zoo. But its just a zoo.

Food is so-so.

Shops at Ku'damm very impressive but I'm not arsed. I'd have shopped in Potsdam but kids pissed me off

The DDR museum was rammed.

There's not enough good sights to see together.

Pretty enough around museum island and unter der linden.

Food boring and expensive.

😂grumpy day?
Do you not like history? Art? Architecture? Music? Food?
I've been many times, Berlin can be gorgeous and also quite depressing depending on who you're there with, the weather and what you end up doing. Some areas can feel quite glum with the many tall tower blocks. The museums are ace ands shopping is pretty excellent. You can find wonderful diverse restaurants as well as lovely local Italian trattorias. Maybe more than other places, it reflects how you feel in yourself?

Walking past catatonic, zombie like drug addicts around Zoo is miserable, they're totally out of it.

A mixed bag really.

notacooldad · 31/10/2025 15:14

Berlin is a great capital and ive been 7 times in recent years but im not sure about the best.
I suppose its about what you want.
Tokyo is my favourite followed by Oslo.

Fffdaa · 31/10/2025 15:21

I'm not very well travelled unfortunately. How different are EU cities to experience in the summer Vs winter? Basically in hot Vs cold weather

Fffdaa · 31/10/2025 15:23

I've done a few. Paris. Budapest. Geneva. But never done the same city at different times of the year.

BlazesBoylansHat · 31/10/2025 15:44

If you like jazz i recommebd visiting a jazz bar - we went to b flat & loved it

Crikeyalmighty · 31/10/2025 15:47

ZenNudist · 30/10/2025 22:15

I am currently in Berlin. I went to Potsdam today. Really unimpressedwith Berlin. I have a lovely hotel in a great area of the city. I enjoyed a pre booked tour of the Reichstag..

I'm honestly really unimpressed. It's easy enough to get about but just so blah and unimpressive.

I liked the zoo. But its just a zoo.

Food is so-so.

Shops at Ku'damm very impressive but I'm not arsed. I'd have shopped in Potsdam but kids pissed me off

The DDR museum was rammed.

There's not enough good sights to see together.

Pretty enough around museum island and unter der linden.

Food boring and expensive.

Having been lots of times as I’ve posted on here, I think the issue for me is that I’ve done all the history and main sights stuff lots of times and apart from that it’s not ‘in my opinion’ a particularly attractive ‘potter’ in the main, especially if it’s cold, windy or raining which it is a fair bit outside of summer. A lot of the architecture is quite bleak as was rebuilt , so large parts aren’t exactly pretty and the area round zoo is not nice, and neither is the zoo - quite depressing I thought - . I also agree about the food. Best place we went by a country mile was a large pan Asian upscale place , in a bit of an out the way area. I also like Maximilian’s if you want Germanic beerhall type food - been there lots ( near checkpoint Charlie) - I much preferred it 25 years ago if I’m honest - it felt less ‘scruffy hipster trying too hard ’ and more ‘alternative and arty’ but in a different way

dynamiccactus · 31/10/2025 15:51

I agree with a pp that I don't think anywhere can beat Rome or generally anywhere in Italy, but outside Italy, I do think Berlin is right up there for history.

Copenhagen for liveability, definitely.

Fffdaa · 31/10/2025 15:54

People who love European cities do you like where you live in the UK?

My eldest DS is just finding London more and more depressing each day and hates the fact he cannot move and work in his companies multiple EU offices due to Brexit