AIBU to stop calling my brother & abandon my relationship with his kids?

[CollsR]

My brother lives in the US and is married with three kids (aged 10, 8 & 6). I usually call him 2-5 times a month, on weekends, to video chat with his kids. He rarely (if ever) calls me. I don't keep him for too long, usually 10-20mins. Sometimes longer, sometimes shorter. For many months now, he's been answering less often, and I've been calling less often. I've only was able to speak to the kids about once a month or less in the last 6 months. We use FB messenger to communicate. Sometimes when he didn’t answer he'd reply later in the day & explain (we are at a park etc) but never said when would be a good time to call. I replied in August to say to feel free to call me when not busy. I didn't do it with judgement, but if he's more busy it makes sense he chooses the time of any calls. He never called, not once.

The last time I called & he answered he said (without irony) that his youngest was just asking after my son and me, and asking why she hasn't seen us in a while. That was more than a month ago. My calls the last two weekends were not answered & no messages received. I'm really hurt and upset by this but I think I just give-up. I'm sorry to lose contact with the kids but I feel like there is little I can do. AIBU to stop calling and just leave things.

I thought of trying via his wife, but while she is lovely when I visit she never calls me or answers my calls. She rarely even reads FB messages. And when I call my brother she rarely speaks to me. She's always busy arranging something or doesn't have her make-up on (I never wear makeup so don't care, but she does it seems). For a year I would always do a group call to my brother and his wife, and his wife never picked up the call, only my brother sometimes answered

I'm a working mum with a toddler and a partner who runs his own business, so I am busy too. But I make time for Family. My husband's family are all busy, some work 2 jobs, some work 7 days and they all have children also. But my husband's family finds time to call and message directly to me, as well as call my husband and chat to me also. My SIL via my husband talk to me with or without makeup on. We don't care!

For some background, there is an issue with our mother. I cut contact with her 8 years ago for narcisistic behaviour (long before it was fashionable, lol). My brother is the golden child and doesn't see any problem with perfect, victim dear Mummy. He rarely wants to talk about it, but when he decides to bring it up he blames me. I tried to build a good relationship with him but it doesn't seem to work. He mostly just hands the phone to the kids & never asks me much & doesn't respond much. He also only answers when his kids are around and won't go somewhere private. A few years ago when our Dad was seriously unwell I wanted to speak privately. He said I can talk about Dad maybe dying in front of his kids (then aged about 4, 6 & 8). I refused and was horrified he behaved like that. I call on or before the kids' birthdays. I post birthday & Christmas presents to all 3 kids each year. When I talked about cutting back and sending cards with a bit of cash I was told the kids love my gifts. This year when my son turned one I was busy celebrating with my husbands family, but realised a few months later that my brother didn't message or call to wish my son a happy birthday. And there was no present in the post. He didn't even comment on or like the Facebook post I made wishing my son Happy Birthday. At least my SIL liked the post.

AIBU to just stop calling all together and basically abandon my relationship with my brother's kids?

So I also think your idea of calling before breakfast or while they’re busy making pancakes is intrusive of their family time. You really can’t see that?
Before breakfast would be very early there, and while they’re doing something with their parents you call and distract them. That would really irritate me too.
much like someone just popping by really early and while we’re busy. No wonder your SiL says it’s about her not being ready with make up. Makes complete sense now.

I think those calling intense for wanting a video chat about once a month with nieces/nephew don’t have much family living abroad. My brother and I have no other siblings, and we both live outside our home country.

My brother doesn’t have to spend anytime planning, travelling or attending family events with his side of the extended family. He doesn’t attend things for my family, our parents, aunts, uncles or cousins. No bbqs, birthdays or weddings.

He speaks to our parents about once or twice a month (they are divorced but share a house & do communal calls with him… yes it’s odd). He calls his uni friends nearly every week. And we used to speak about twice a month. Now it’s been twice in four months. Soon to be twice in five months.

That was a time my brother said worked well, so I’d aim to call then. He actually said I could call earlier when the kids were all in their parents bed… but that seemed intrusive to me. So around 9am US time when they were out of bed I’d call. It wouldn’t be every week as I’d be busy sometimes. He wouldn’t always answer. When went spoke my brother would be making pancakes with one of his kids (he takes turns to do it with one kid a week). We would say hello, one kid would tell me what colour they decided for the pancakes. The phone would be given to one of the two not helping. They would carry me around. I’d talk to the two not helping. When I went back to my brother he’d tell me about his work as he cooked & then I’d go.

Honestly, as I reflect and write this it seems that this stopped being convenient when my husband stopped working on Sundays and would join the chat.

I think this is the answer. My brother doesn’t really cal me. I’m older, female & for a long time single so I’d put the effort in. He seemed happy to talk about his work and life when I called. He invite me to come visit often. I used to once a year. He would barely speak to me when I visited but I would enjoy time with my SIL and the kids. Now I’ve got my own family the one-sided relationship seems a lot more obvious.

The one time a year he would call would be a video chat on Christmas for my parents & me to watch the kids open Christmas presents from Santa and then from us. Santa gets the kids about 18 presents each. So the video call would be over an hour and a half with no talking to us. Just us watching them unwrap. And us watching them being yelled at for wanting to play with a toy when they have 10 more boxes to unwrap. I’ll be skipping that in the future. I’ll also no longer be sending multiple gifts for each kid. Likely they won’t notice and I’ll write them a letter in their card & just give one modest gift

My siblings and I all live in different countries, OP, and my parents too, so I’m perfectly familiar with how that affects patterns of communication.

Unlike you, though, I don’t have such an entrenched sense of what any of them ‘should’ be doing, and the effort they ‘should’ be making to stay in touch with me and their nephew. I also accept that these things ebb and flow. At one point when DS was a baby/toddler in a high chair we always had a Skype breakfast with both sets of grandparents at the weekend, but that stopped suiting us so it stopped.

I think for your own peace of mind, you need to acknowledge that it’s not that you’re right and he’s wrong, just that you have different needs for communication, and that his is less than yours.

ETA. After seeing your post recent posts, this sounds straightforwardly like a situation of ‘I go above and beyond, so why doesn’t he match my effort?’

I think it is a case of having to accept that these situations are two sided. You making lots of effort isn't going to be enough if the other party doesn't want the same sort of relationship and you have to try and make your peace with it.

It's hard though, I feel like most people these days really prioritise their family to the point where they have little time for others and it really sucks when you don't have those family bonds yourself.

I do hear what is being said. I know my effort it much more than my brother. I did it for his kids really. Not for him. I understand ebb & flow but we’ve gone from a little contact to barely none. When we have had contact the 6yo asked to come to my home & asked why she hasn’t seen me on video chat in ages, the 8yo nephew was playing with my son via video and started crying a little cause he misses the little guy and wants to see us more. The 10yo just told me about her life and asked about my son and then said she should add me on Facebook so we can chat more like she does with her US Aunt. Her mum cut her off and actually spoke on video chat and said she wouldn’t do that to me as she messages a lot & explained it was a kids version where parents see everything. I said I didn’t mind. She said she was worried about time difference. I said my phone goes in silent at night so it’s fine but my SIL still just said no.

I haven’t know what to say to the kids. Nothing really to say as I keep things age appropriate and don’t overshare with children. But I’ve felt bad about this. Really nothing I can do but write them letters. And probably any guilt is not mine.

I’ve made my peace with having little to no relationship with my brother. I just feel like his kids will grow to think I don’t care about them, when I really do.

Good old fashioned letters and postcards are the answer I feel, but addressed to the kids not your brother - he doesn’t deserve your effort.

You expect him to match your energy you put into contact and it's just not going to happen. He should be this and he should be that and I do this and Family and I'm sure he picks up on how you think he's lacking.

He lives in a different country and that's his family and his life. You're not going to have a really close relationship, there's too much physical and emotional distance and a family rift. You have a lot of judgement of him and things might be easier if you can accept others don't have to meet your standards and can do their thing. You can't control him.

Stop with the gifts if they're not sending anything for your child. Let go, they are.

As the kids age, they may or may not contact you. You can talk to them if that happens.

In my experience, it's difficult to have a better relationship with someone's kids than you have with them.

You are making a lot of effort and getting very little back.

Focus on family that are glad to hear from you?

This must be so hard for you. My family is dispersed between different countries and you absolutely have to put in the effort to keep in touch with each other. It would be so easy to fall out of touch. Invites over for milestone events, holidays, cards on birthdays, regular calls, etc. WhatsApp has made that so much more accessible than it ever used to be. I think your going to have to explain to your brother what you need from him, but accept he may not be able/willing to offer it.

I would not bother about your DB but its seems a shame about the children who clearly like you and want to keep in touch. I would carry on phoning to speak to the children but probably not so often.

It's a credit to you that you've tried to maintain a relationship with him and his DC, but it seems that's not what he wants. I don't suppose both your relationships with your mother is helping the situation.

I'd definitely reduce contact. Sending gifts to his DC is a nice thing to do, but don't ever expect that from him.

You can learn not to try too hard and realise that your efforts are often not appreciated anyway.

You sound like a very caring sister and aunt, but your brother doesn't seem to reciprocate that (and nor does your SIL). Do they find the contact too much or too frequent, or... have their lives just moved on and in a different direction? I imagine that life is quite hectic with three children, jobs, school runs, and in a different time zone. However, as PPs have said, it might be that he sides with your mother over your disagreement and NC.

I have a brother. We have two very different personalities. If we weren't related, then we wouldn't choose to be in each other's company. While I don't mind the distance between us, I'd still like to have a relationship (as much as one can have, given the distance) with his children.

Life gets busy OP, so although he's said to call, it doesn't mean they're not exhausted and just meeding a break.
8 & 10 would also be age for weekend clubs.

Nothing worse than a group video call, especially an impromptu one, I'm never ready for some and didn't do a single one even during covid.

Sounds like they dont enjoy them either.

I'd still call and speak to the kids, but make it quick and soon they'll have their own phones so you can contact them directly.

What is it with brothers and their being absolutely shit when family comes along?

I've similar with one of my brothers, though the visits were less often. Just got sick to death of his shitty attitude and quite frankly the way he was raising his kids. The oldest boy is an entitled racist who just plays computer games all day and is clearly rummaging about in the dark recesses of the internet. His daughter has behavioural problems he refuses to get treated as "I can discipline her myself". She has no friends and is extremely socially awkward as surprisingly, going all Victorian dad has not worked and it's continuing not to work.

What's relevant here, maybe, is my brother extends his poor, domineering attitude to our relationship and snarks and snipes away like a constipated toddler. He somehow thinks he's got the upper hand as he's a super serious daddy and I'm a feckless single with no kids (living the life I've chosen, thanks).

I've friends with kids who value my time and my input into their kids lives. So I focus on them.

Thanks for the replies. My brother isn't shy about saying what he wants. He's never said to call less. When I have asked ( a number of times) he always says call when I want and he'll only answer if he wants. It used to seem fair, but doesn't so much any more. I'm close to giving up all together after him not answering for 2.5 months & not replying once some messages. Back in August I messaged for a birthday and asked if a present arrived on time. Nothing.

I'm not denying that they are busy. I know about their life as when we speak I ask and listen. I know 2 kids have sports Sat morning. I know Friday night they have a family movie night so I never call then. I know they mostly eat take-away and they have a weekly team of cleaners to clean their big home. I can see they make time to spend a whole afternoon or day nearly every week with my SIL family. The Instagram updates are constant. They can of course choose how to use their limited time and I like my SIL family (I've met them all many times and are FB friends with them all). I can also be upset that they can't find any time for my family and me. My SIL can message to say I should visit for thanksgiving as she misses my son, but she can't video chat with him once in six months. I'm sad for my son and sad for me. But I will just put my effort into my husbands family who reciprocate warmly and show me love and never shout at me when I visit.

5 times a month is a lot of calls! Maybe a couple per year is more realistic?

I would include in your letters/cards to the DC your contact details and tell them they are free to message you to arrange a time for a call. Obviously remind them the time difference and why it needs to be a message to then arrange something.

Its sad that your brother can’t be bothered.

Not responding to a message about a gift is really rude. Everyone has time to send a short text saying thank you, however busy you are. You are a lot kinder to him than he deserves OP.
Dial it right back and put in the same level of effort he does. Cards at Christmas and birthdays, the odd letter or email to the kids.
Sadly it does boil down to them just not being interested. There can be endless excuses about being busy, but that's bullshit. If they wanted to make the effort, they would.
I agree with putting your efforts into your other family members and putting yourself first. No point hurting your own feelings every month when your efforts are rebuffed.

My brother lives less than a mile away & if my sister & I didn’t make the effort we’d probably only see him at birthdays & Xmas 😂 No bad blood, he just keeps himself to himself. We do make the effort to stay in touch slightly more frequently but I’ve largely just come to accept the status quo. He doesn’t have kids though.

I haven't called my brother for about 20 years but we email any time we feel like it. In the past the phone calls were awkward. I dislike anyone calling me (apart from my children) as I can be in the middle of something important.

imo you require too much contact and emotional support. People are different. My brother lives abroad and I maybe speak with him 3x a year. You sound needy.

I’m sorry to hear this OP, you sound like a dedicated family member and little effort from your brother’s side. Same here. On a smaller scale than you, I would text my brother every two or three weeks outside of family visits with our parents. I was lucky if I got a thumbs up on the messages. He would never send me a text. I did this for ages and finally stopped. He has always been like this sometimes not buying present not just for me but other family members too. He has no partner or children so I think later in life he may find himself alone. His niece won’t know him at all (he doesn’t interact with her on family visits). He doesn’t interact much in person with me either so I give up. I know more about work colleagues than my brother.