To hesitate to move back from US to UK because of terrible state of NHS

[Star555]

(Apologies for the double post; posted on Living Overseas board but realised it's probably better to post here to get the perspective of MNers who currently live in the UK rather than the US)

I'm a long-term expat (in my 30s) living in the US. My parents and I moved to the US many years ago when I was in school, and although I have always thought about moving back home as an adult (I love history and culture and easy access to Europe, which the US woefully lacks), my parents are settled in the US and don't want to move back because they think the UK is in a bad state (failing NHS, high taxes, older infrastructure, etc.) One parent had a major operation recently and is under ongoing treatment at a top hospital here in America, and they think they would not have had received timely care like this in the UK given the current state of the NHS.

I have been on the fence about whether moving back home would be a good choice or not, and am thinking about it more seriously now given the US government situation, although my parents are against the idea. I don't mind the lower salaries in the UK so much (I have a STEM postgraduate degree and would likely have a job at a company in/near London), but I am mainly concerned about the state of healthcare. I have heard so many horror stories about overflowing A&Es and huge waits for life-saving treatments in the UK. I am currently single and don't have any close family or friends in the UK that I could count on for support if I were to need major medical treatment (touch wood). I would be willing to pay (or my employer would pay) for private insurance, but am not sure how much it would truly help.

Has anyone else decided against moving back to the UK, or decided to move out of the UK, primarily because of the sorry state of the NHS? Is access to timely medical care really that bad in London and the South in general? On one hand, I want to return to my homeland and raise (future) children there because of the culture, etc. but on the other hand I want reliable, high-quality medical care for myself and any kids I might have.

Why don’t you just budget for private healthcare? Seems the obvious solution

do you have any first hand knowledge of the nhs? It’s just that there are people all over the world who are vocal in saying they would never live in the US due to the healthcare system so it’s not an uncommon thought about practically any country (in fact I can’t think of one that people are desperate to move to for their healthcare system)

In the U.S. you have health insurance to get great treatment. You can do the same in the UK.
To even consider the NHS as a reason NOT to move here from the US is laughable!

Our brilliant NHS

Yes, I would definitely get private healthcare to increase chances of getting GP appointments more quickly, but even that doesn't guarantee short waits at the A&E for example...

I’d stay in the USA

We also have women’s reproductive rights and lack of school shootings

I see your point but in 46 years I’ve only attended A&E twice. It’s not something people generally do often is it?

and tbh, you’ll find them generally very good in a (true) emergency

A&E is triaged - people who have to wait in a&e for 5 hours don’t need immediate medical treatment. (Disclaimer mistakes get made in triage of course)

Stay where you are. 😂😂😂

If your used to having to pay for healthcare just carry on doing that then? Its a lot of handwringing over nothing really. People say taxes are higher in the UK than the US but don't take into account the cost of healthcare in the US, or if you are in a job that provides healthcare there is a high chance its the kind of job that can offer private healthcare as a perk here in the UK. I work for a property consultancy that offers private healthcare as a perk. Or try the NHS first and then go private if you feel you need to, given life expectancies and general health levels are so much higher in the UK than the US you might even find it better.

What are you basing your assertions on? As I've said elsewhere on MN this afternoon, I'm about to start treatment for cancer and have been impressed with the quality of the staff and facilities so far.

Hmmm, the nhs wouldn’t bother me too much. The terminal decline of the economy would be more of a worry.

If you're willing to pay for private health insurance (WPA for instance costs me about £80/month) then I dont think it should be a great consideration.

The NHS mostly works OK when you're into the system. It's the gatekeeping that delays you getting in.

I have private insurance because I figure that the NHS will take care of anything major (chemo etc), accidental injury, or chronic (prescriptions). Meantime I can get early diagnosis and elective surgeries quickly.

On the topic of salary, I'd be more concerned about pay stagnation if you're heading for academia. PhD RAs are routinely on c£40k which is not a lot if you're London bound.

I’d get private health insurance but I guess it depends on how often you think you will be in A&E. Which I know you can’t always answer. How often have you been in the emergency room in the US? Most people don’t go very often. Some abuse it rather than going to the GP and/or a pharmacy. Do you have any major health issues which make you think you will be using it more than the average person? No one can really answer it for you as it depends on how often you think you will need it and does than counteract the history and culture that’s the reason for coming back.

The U.K. does not have a sophisticated enough private healthcare system to be able to avoid using the NHS. Anything emergency or complex and the private system will send you packing right back to the NHS.

It’s not the main reason I’d avoid coming back to the UK though. If I was in a position to leave this country I would seriously consider it right now. Opportunities for the ambitious are few and far between, arts and culture are struggling with underfunding, our high streets and transport infrastructure are crumbling and our society is straining at the seams with differences of opinion around immigration.

I have family in various parts of the US and their quality of life far exceeds our own for a whole variety of reasons.

I have a child with a severe health problem and NHS has been a disaster from day one. We fight every day to get nothing back and staff have been very hostile to us. We ended up having to pay private doctors out of our own pockets. I’d stay in the US.

If you have a postgrad in a STEM subject then I would think you're highly skilled and the sort of companies you'd work for would almost certainly have private health care included their package. Unless you're planning to be self employed, in which case you can still pay for private health care directly yourself.

So you'd be fine. The only time you'd need the NHS is if you have to visit A&E or you get pregnant. Even the latter you can still pay for private maternity care here, it just isn't covered by health insurance, because its not an illness. Don't even get me started on that one.

How healthy are you? Do you often need urgent care?

I think you’d have to pay anyway. You wouldn’t be entitled to nhs care and neither would your parents, I think for two years. So do look into that.

I do agree with this- the uk is in terminal decline and few people accept it. As a result they scream for better better better because they deserve it without ever questioning who will pay for it

Its a false equivalence

Youre comparing private healthcare for those who can afford it with a public free at point of use for all system

Go and compare the NHS with the healthcare experience of poorer, less privileged americans than your parents then come and tell us if you still think its a barrier

How often do you really need A&E which actually isn’t that slow most of the time when you really need it - those who wait usually aren’t triaged correctly or else really aren’t in a life or death critical situation.

You’ve got to be paying for private healthcare at the moment so just continue to do so here. At least the likelihood of being shot on your way to the hospital is far lower in the UK!

My mum had a stroke last year, an ambulance arrived within 30 minutes, she was taken to a regional centre of excellent where a team of Drs, nurses and consultants worked on her, she had scans etc, she was then moved to another hospital for 6 weeks were a team of Drs, nurses, physios etc tried to get her healing.

I have had 2 biopsy’s in the last 12 months, having had symptoms of cancer. I was seen assessed, operated on a diagnosed within 12 weeks.

My sister has had knee surgery, within 6 weeks of being seen by a consultant.

My diabetic friend gets regular insulin, without having to worry about paying for it.

The NHS is not perfect, but we don’t leave people to die with easily managed conditions like Diabetes. Health Services in the US are fine if you have money.

A&E can be a nightmare. Or it can be OK. Someone I know was bitten by a dog recently. I took them to “urgent care” a they were given antibiotics (for free) and a tetanus vaccination. I was in the carpark for less than 20 mins, so I didn’t even have to pay for parking . People don’t tell you the good bits. I don’t have difficulty getting a GP appointment. I have been told there are no ambulances available when I’ve phoned 999, and been told to take the patient to the nearest A&E.

There are lots of reasons someone might not want to live in the UK, rather than the US, but I’m not convinced it’s healthcare. I’ve heard horror stories from relatives in the US. But of course, they don’t mention the good stories so much!

Budget for private health insurance or get a job with it, there’s some stuff it won’t cover and there are no private a and e (but how often are you expecting to be going) it’s something I wouldn’t want to be without, I’m staying with my current company for the health insurance

If you are already paying for private healthcare you will be fine, private healthcare is fine here, it's the nhs that's in crisis. It's very rare that you will need to use A and E if you have private healthcare. A lot of A and E visits are because people struggle to get care from their GPs.

Makes me laugh when I hear all this nonsense from the US about the NHS. I worked in the states for a number of years ( in several large hospitals , where incidentally, I learned to treat gunshot wounds ) and I knew good friends who avoided going to hospital or even calling an ambulance because of the cost. And they were pooh bear scared of losing their job because of the healthcare problem. It controlled their lives.