To hesitate to move back from US to UK because of terrible state of NHS

[Star555]

(Apologies for the double post; posted on Living Overseas board but realised it's probably better to post here to get the perspective of MNers who currently live in the UK rather than the US)

I'm a long-term expat (in my 30s) living in the US. My parents and I moved to the US many years ago when I was in school, and although I have always thought about moving back home as an adult (I love history and culture and easy access to Europe, which the US woefully lacks), my parents are settled in the US and don't want to move back because they think the UK is in a bad state (failing NHS, high taxes, older infrastructure, etc.) One parent had a major operation recently and is under ongoing treatment at a top hospital here in America, and they think they would not have had received timely care like this in the UK given the current state of the NHS.

I have been on the fence about whether moving back home would be a good choice or not, and am thinking about it more seriously now given the US government situation, although my parents are against the idea. I don't mind the lower salaries in the UK so much (I have a STEM postgraduate degree and would likely have a job at a company in/near London), but I am mainly concerned about the state of healthcare. I have heard so many horror stories about overflowing A&Es and huge waits for life-saving treatments in the UK. I am currently single and don't have any close family or friends in the UK that I could count on for support if I were to need major medical treatment (touch wood). I would be willing to pay (or my employer would pay) for private insurance, but am not sure how much it would truly help.

Has anyone else decided against moving back to the UK, or decided to move out of the UK, primarily because of the sorry state of the NHS? Is access to timely medical care really that bad in London and the South in general? On one hand, I want to return to my homeland and raise (future) children there because of the culture, etc. but on the other hand I want reliable, high-quality medical care for myself and any kids I might have.

That was a typo for breathing difficulties

yes of course I’m for real. What do you think triage is for? Who do you think is being seen for 10 hours ahead of someone with a heart attack?!

I know people in the USA who have waited >> 4 hours to be seen in Emergency Departments. Their EDs have no 4 hour targets. UK and maybe Sweden are only countries in world with 95% must-be-finished-by target times.

Article about Georgia EDs saying 50% seen within 2.5 hours, so that means plenty waiting much longer. I don't know if that's time to disposition or time to finish waiting.

St. Louis wait times "expected" so I guess that means median, 4-6 hrs.

South Korea used to have typical 20-24 hour waits in their A&Es. MERS put end to that, supposedly.

Wait times in A&E aren't really the biggest problem imho. Wait times for 'elective' tretament are the huge problem linked to social care crisis.

I can see my GP the same day. They even open 6-8pm and weekend mornings. Never had an issue getting an appointment and can choose telephone or face to face

All of this.
My DIL is American but lives here in the UK with my son. Her father had cancer. The first time round his insurance paid for treatment and he survived. The cancer came back and that time there was no money for treatment. He didn't tell his family until it was too late for them to insist on selling everything to pay for it. He wanted to leave his wife and daughters with a roof still over their heads. He died 9 years ago. It was horrific

Not all state schools are shit.

Southern half of the country, but not being more precise than that I'm afraid.

Yes, 7 days a week. We have a walk in GP that's open evenings during the week (till 10pm) and all day at weekends. You just go and wait, and see a GP. So if an appointment with my actual GP practice isn't available or won't work for me, I just pop down to the walk in that evening. They are able to refer on (referred me for a suspicious mole under 2ww, mole was fine), prescribe the same as GP etc. I don't think they are as good for continuing care, but for one off issues, they are fine.

I think this excellent clinic means A&E is less clogged up with unnecessary patients. We've used it for minor injuries, whiplash following a car accident, kids with UTIs, kids with ear infections etc. Last time I was in and out within 20 minutes.

I had to attend A and E twice recently and was dreading it. But it was empty both times! No waiting, staff twiddling their thumbs. Was seen Immediately both times, sent for an x-ray, waited ten minutes for that. Seen immediately after that. Aftercare has been brilliant for a broken shoulder. A consultant, a specialist nurse and a year’s worth of physiotherapy, hydrotherapy, individual and group sessions. This is at a major London hospital.

I’ve also been treated for cancer twice- very fast. Different hospital in London.

It is a moot point, OP as you won't be entitled to NHS care for a while.

We're in the SE and can get same day appointments easily, the GP is a polyclinic with loads of services attached and we have several urgent care/walk in centres nearby. We self refer to things like physio.

If it helps, went have family in the US with joint citizenship and the medic is planning on moving back to the UK so they can at least deliver the reproductive healthcare they trained to do. There's lots of misinfo in the US on the NHS.

I know what it's for.

And I have seen waiting times for suspected strokes and heart attacks for up to 7 hours.

Spare me the propaganda,

The main problem with the NHS is that it's nationalised, ie entirely state-funded, and a constant flow of taxpayer money is ripe for abuse, so then mismanagement becomes prolific to the point where more money is being spent on managers than doctors, nurses, surgeons etc This all results in heavy rationing, ie long waiting lists.

While the US healthcare system is mostly private, that doesn't make it immune to medical malpractice. Healthcare law and accident lawyers make a killing (no pun intended) from the healthcare industry and medical malpractice claims.

Also, the NHS is so massive (the public sector is in and of itself extremely bloated anyway) that it will become necessary to have health insurance eventually, which I believe is why many (particularly those who worship the NHS) think it's being 'stolen' by the private sector or 'sold off' to the private sector.

If I were in your position, my primary concern would not be the healthcare system.

Also, GP appointments are easy. At mine, you do an online consult, then they phone you back with an appointment, usually the same day or within a couple of days. I’ve never waited much longer than a week.

Can you just come back though if you have not lived in the UK for many years and not paid into the NHS? your eligibility depends on your residency status on return.

You are not really an ex-pat this usually someone who has moved to another country for work and living there temporary, do you still have citizenship in the UK or a US citizen?

They will.

if she is a British citizen she will need to prove permanent residency before accessing the nhs, but tha’s simply a job, an address etc.

if she needs a visa then an nhs fee will be charged as part of the application to cover any NHS treatment.

Statistics are propaganda?

The NHS is not perfect but frankly never heard of anyone waiting for life saving treatment. A&E is over flowing with people who need to see the GP. If you are seriously unwell the NHS is frankly fantastic.

My daughter had a heart condition. I’ve never see the children’s waiting room. I ring ahead and a nurse meets me at the door and she’s taken straight through to a team waiting for her. The surgery she needs is around £400k in the US (as quoted by Americans in our support group)

had a baby last year. Didn’t spend a penny and got first class c section care.

id take the NHS over £kkkkks on US healthcare any day

We made the move back about three years ago - having agonised about the decision for a long time.

we miss many things about the USA but have zero regrets about it. Being here is the right place for us at the moment (and despite all the doom mongering, the NHS has been wonderful when we have needed it. Had my first two children in the US and my third over here - slightly less hands off approach, much less anxiety inducing. No gigantic hospital bill..!)

I love American, my husband is American- I don’t think either country is better or worse.

if you’re single and relatively flexible then do it! If it doesn’t pan out - you can move back. I suspect you’ll regret not trying it out more than you’d regret the inconvenience of it not working out and having to back track.

It’s funny you’ve written that, because nothing on this Earth would get me to move to the US, with its lack of free healthcare and free for all laws around gun use.

NHS has been fine where I live. Yes the GP booking system is annoying but they will get to you if it's urgent. And operation waiting lists are going down due to weekend operations. I couldn't imagine living in the USA where theu don't have free health care.

You thought they were suspected- I’ll bet the triage nurse knew differently.

Depends how they are used and collated, but yes, they can be.

And quite frankly I know what I've witnessed, so I don't really care for statistics.

No guns, no (or not as much of a) fentanyl issue, less driving, smaller food portions, less sugar, more community spirit, Europe, more history, no guns.

You could always move back if you hated it! Just either meet a fellow US expat living here or a Brit who’s open to living in the US potentially.

I some of the cases it had nothing to do with triage.

The delays happened later. Not enough staff, not enough x ray capacity, lost blood tests that needed to be repeated. And I need to sit with an increasingly worried and unwell elderly relative.

Also, triage nurses do get it wrong.

So, don't tell me everything is rosy in A&E land.

The NHS is hit and miss. Some areas are superb, others not. However, it’s not all dire and there’s some good people doing good work.