Don't have kids you can't afford!

[user793847984375948]

Hi all, this is meant to be an interesting discussion.

I keep seeing people say, “Don’t have kids if you can’t afford them.”

But in the UK, if someone works full-time on minimum wage, the state ends up paying thousands for childcare so that parent can work.
If that same parent stayed home, they would receive less support overall, yet they would be raising their own child hands-on. A single mum can work part-time and get rent and living costs for kids, around 500 a month in support if she works.

Nursery is about 1K a month usually. Then there's the wraparound care before and after school that could also be funded by UC.

So why is one scenario seen as responsible and the other as “sponging”?

Further, do people who say “don’t have kids you can’t afford” actually think only those earning £60k or more should have children, since that is roughly what it takes to cover childcare or a single income? That eradicates the above two scenarios and it's just those with independent wealth

If so, what would that mean for society long-term, both economically and socially? There would be fewer poor people over all and I think this would have an impact on our monetary system and menial jobs getting done.

And if you believe that only the wealthy should reproduce, you are effectively asking rich, white, powerful men to police women’s reproduction.
That is exactly what is happening in parts of America right now.

Genuinely curious how people justify this way of thinking.

Oh dear the OP looks like yet another "plop and run " thread - usually along the lines of "I don't know much about [politics / economics/ Middle East etc] but could someone explain why [insert controversial statement like above].

The OP is then never heard from again- they are basically there to shit stir and cause division.

As it should be.

Well, if everyone takes your view I'd hate to see what humanity looks like in a generation or so.

Exactly. I had a baby at 16 and grew up in a nice area too (I know it gets said that teen mums only live in shitholes) half the people judging young mums got pregnant back then too they just had abortions and maybe the reason they’re so judgmental is they secretly regret it and are a little envious of the girls who kept their babies?

@No5ChalksRoad If you were that bothered about over population then why didn't you stay child free yourself?

I did. Any other questions?

It is not inherently selfish to have children. Or to want them. It could be argued that in a country like ours where the birth rate is not at replacement levels and therefore in need of immigration to support us (frequently taking educated and experienced people from countries that can ill afford a brain drain), it is not having children that is selfish.

And you get plenty back. You dial 999 and you will get the police/ambulance/fire service. You drive on publically funded roads. Your bins are collected. Social Services support the vulnerable. A court and punishment system is in place. Children are educated for everyone’s future benefit etc etc etc

That explains a lot.

I doubt anyone would regret not having had a baby at 16!

At that age most people are still growing up and in education, learning new skills, considering what careers they might want to pursue and as well as starting to have a first relationships.

You’d be surprised I know a woman who had an aborton at that age and after knowing me and seeing how normal my life and family is when she told me about her abortion she said it as if she had some regrets.

And sadly some people reach their 30s/40s with a mediocre job not a career, barely any good friends and leaving a rubbish relationship so really having a baby at an acceptable age like 30 is no different to having one at 16 for these people

Please. That argument is so tedious.

There is no shortage of human beings; there are more on the planet today than ever before. There will never be a shortage. Subsidies aren’t necessary and just encourage imprudent procreation among people who should be focusing on education and employment.

Exactly. Imagine being proud of such a thing.

So you have no children and call other people a waste of space but unless you plan on euthanising yourself you will expect other people’s children to look after you?

Or the answer is more immigration because you think you will be treated well when you’re in a care home where 90% of the workers are from abroad, potentially from a country that the uk had a bad history with?

You need to train yourself to discuss topics in the abstract without personal insults toward those with whom you disagree.

Posters who resort to ad hominem attacks are essentially admitting they have lost the debate. And have nothing of substance to contribute.

You seem not to understand what a personal insult is.

I could give you an example, but I fear it would be against Talk guidelines.

Exactly

Was your son tied down and made to have sex against his will?

Is Income tax the only tax you know about?

But for someone living on benefits, the small proportion they pay in indirect taxes such as VAT etc will still be many times smaller than the amount of taxpayer funded benefits they receive. So they'll still be a significant net recipient.

It's much more than this - kids born in unemployed families on benefits are nearly certain to end up the same. It's very naïve to believe that these kids with help of welfare be the "other people’s children to look after you". They will not - they will keep on sponging from our kids the same way as their parents are sponging from us. Rinse and repeat

@Differentforgirls given that I have a business certainly not - corp tax, VAT, employers and employee NI - I’m very familiar with all of them - maybe you could enlighten us with what direct taxation people not working and in receipt of benefits are paying apart from VAT which is also net able off to businesses receiving it against what they pay out . I fully realise life needs a security net and that some have an ability to contribute more than others, and others struggle to work at all due to physical disabilities, but some perfectly fit and healthy people are happy to be lifelong takers and just get by leaving everyone else to pay .the point of the thread though was about having children that you can’t afford - not that you could never afford them easily , that’s a different situation, it’s about knowing from the off that you will likely always just take from the system and see nothing wrong with that and not make any effort to earn cash off your own back .

@Differentforgirls given that I have a business certainly not - corp tax, VAT, employers and employee NI - I’m very familiar with all of them - maybe you could enlighten us with what direct taxation people not working and in receipt of benefits are paying apart from VAT which is also net able off to businesses receiving it against what they pay out . I fully realise life needs a security net and that some have an ability to contribute more than others, and others struggle to work at all due to physical disabilities, but some perfectly fit and healthy people are happy to be lifelong takers and just get by leaving everyone else to pay .the point of the thread though was about having children that you can’t afford - not that you could never afford them easily , that’s a different situation, it’s about knowing from the off that you will likely always just take from the system and see nothing wrong with that and not make any effort to earn cash off your own back .

@Differentforgirls given that I have a business certainly not - corp tax, VAT, employers and employee NI - I’m very familiar with all of them - maybe you could enlighten us with what direct taxation people not working and in receipt of benefits are paying apart from VAT which is also net able off to businesses receiving it against what they pay out . I fully realise life needs a security net and that some have an ability to contribute more than others, and others struggle to work at all due to physical disabilities, but some perfectly fit and healthy people are happy to be lifelong takers and just get by leaving everyone else to pay .the point of the thread though was about having children that you can’t afford - not that you could never afford them easily , that’s a different situation, it’s about knowing from the off that you will likely always just take from the system and see nothing wrong with that and not make any effort to earn cash off your own back .

Anyone working and claiming UC will be above the threshold so paying tax and NI, vat and council tax.

Plus, I see free nursery hours as a benefit tbh.