Don't have kids you can't afford!

[user793847984375948]

Hi all, this is meant to be an interesting discussion.

I keep seeing people say, “Don’t have kids if you can’t afford them.”

But in the UK, if someone works full-time on minimum wage, the state ends up paying thousands for childcare so that parent can work.
If that same parent stayed home, they would receive less support overall, yet they would be raising their own child hands-on. A single mum can work part-time and get rent and living costs for kids, around 500 a month in support if she works.

Nursery is about 1K a month usually. Then there's the wraparound care before and after school that could also be funded by UC.

So why is one scenario seen as responsible and the other as “sponging”?

Further, do people who say “don’t have kids you can’t afford” actually think only those earning £60k or more should have children, since that is roughly what it takes to cover childcare or a single income? That eradicates the above two scenarios and it's just those with independent wealth

If so, what would that mean for society long-term, both economically and socially? There would be fewer poor people over all and I think this would have an impact on our monetary system and menial jobs getting done.

And if you believe that only the wealthy should reproduce, you are effectively asking rich, white, powerful men to police women’s reproduction.
That is exactly what is happening in parts of America right now.

Genuinely curious how people justify this way of thinking.

I have two chronic health conditions and have been treated poorly by all but three HCPs in the NHS. Over the course of 18 years only three people were compassionate and treated me gently while I was in pain.

It's absolutely the minority who are kind to patients.

And anyway, I still shouldn't be falling over myself with gratitude for someone doing the job they are paid to do adequately, it's literally the basic expectation of an employee!

I think the issue arises where there is a lack of accountability and expectation that tax payers should pay for poor life choices.

Why should tax payers pay towards people who choose to work part time? Not all 'low paid' parents are doing all they can to be self sufficient. Many realise the minimum required to maximise benefits and choose that.

Well you pay for private healthcare care now so you won’t be experiencing it again.

NHS bashing is another things that pees me off. Yes there are staff who don’t care and their attitudes can be disgusting but not all of them are like this, tarnishing them all in the same way isn’t right nor ok.

Working for the healthcare industry for me was what I wanted to do long term, loved every second of it, my personality fits it too, which is why I wanted to become a nurse and WILL achieve that in due course. I just don’t appreciate the level of judgement and opinions on here by people who doesn’t know anyone personally or the ins and outs of their situations. Everyone’s circumstances are different.

My mum is a high up NHS surgical nurse. When I considered working for the NHS she told me not to. She also pays for private health care. Tells you all you need to know.

Tells me all I need to know? Ok.

Haha to this comment lady grey!!

just read it! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

I can kind of understand it when working full time would mean losing most/all of UC AND spending a fortune on childcare because bills still need to be paid and no one accepts principles as payment.

You know nothing just assuming again! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Highly educated? So because I have 4 kids I’m not highly educated? Wow 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 too funny!

Anyways I’m leaving this thread and won’t be responding anymore, I’ve got to go to sleep as I’m spending the tax payers money on my brows, nails and lashes tomorrow might even get a cheeky spray tan, I just want to thank you personally twinkle for allowing me to do this tomorrow ‘with your tax payers money’ might even get lucky next weekend as I will be looking good so might have another baby in 9 months too! 🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪 all because my situation is my fault and I’m not educated enough and expect the state to pay for my poor choices. It’s been a pleasure, Chow 😚😚😚😚

So you do think the public owes you some moral debt and eternal gratitude? Is being paid for your work not enough?

Strange. I don't need strangers eternal gratitude to do my job.

Kind of understand? 😬

that’s like saying you kind of understand why the bank robber committed a heist, because he couldn’t fund his desired lifestyle without using others’ hard-earned money to pay for it.

One supplier of Covid disposables is now being sued by the government for £millions.
So some of the money will be returned.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1792rk7ynko

Better late than never, I suppose.

@hadenough2025 not everything is a slight on you. I'm not highly educated. It's just a fact that the higher educated a woman is the fewer kids she's likely to have. Those are the women more likely to limit their family sizes and not have as many kids as they like, even if they're well off. So it's actually them being deprived here.

Well bank robbers are committing a crime. Being on benefits isn’t one. Apples and oranges.

Robbing a bank is a crime. Being on benefits is not.
Single parents working part time to maximise benefits (if that is even a thing... on UC, it pays to work) are just using what system is there. It is not fraudulent.

Nothing to do with wanting to focus on their careers instead then...

But it’s taking others’ money to make up for one’s own failures. That’s a moral crime, even of inot a legal one.

you certainly don’t think there’s a magic pot of money, do you? The money to support these people comes from sacrifices by those of us who are actual productive contributors. Who used self-discipline and didn’t organize our lives to grab the maximum possible from hard working fellow citizens.

Both are moral transgressions. No one should impose on others to support personal lifestyle choices.

Nah, they're just going bankrupt :)

The judge ruled the company must pay £121,999,219 in damages, plus interest, however, itremains unclear how Medpro will pay the fee, with the company appointing administrators the day before the court decision.

Anyway it's just 122M out of billions disappeared. I suppose they also need to feed their offspring 😁

Being a single parent does not make someone a failure. Being on benefits does not make someone a failure. Being on benefits does not mean someone is trying to grab the maximum possible from other people.

Believing Daily Mail shite about benefit claimants however...

And "moral crime".. seriously. Who made that shit up. What is the "punishment"?

I'm a Christian and to me what you've been saying here and your "morals" amount to various sins 🤷‍♀️

My son in his 40s has an 8 year old that he adores and sees a lot - almost 50/50 - the mother , who I liked in all honestly , does seem to be a bit of a serial maintanance collector, - 3 kids now, all different dads- as my son says, she likes babies and kids, she doesn’t really want/need relationships but likes the financial support - none of which counts against benefits - all a nice add on -

It’s a form of bullying and discrimination
So predictable! Don't like what I hear or read so I call illegal....classic.

You are such an example of how a single mum COULD work. You are a nurse. Very high in demand, so easy to convert. You can't work night any longer? You can be a community nurse, school nurse, or you can even pick up the many 9 to 5 admin and managerial jobs that require clinical input.

You are a sahm because you want to and the government allows it. You had 4 knowing there was a statistical chance you could become a single mum at any stage.

This is not bullying or harassment but a point of view that you won't care one but about because you don't want to think about it. That is also your choice.

This thread went entirely as expected. They tried to criticise the ‘immigrants’, then the disabled and when that didn’t work they go to the old faithful: the poor and feckless and especially the single mums. When we all know who the real villains are- the rich. We can’t say anything about them though as they might leave…

This is when I wish Mumsnet had a summarise button as I want to respond but don’t have time to read all the responses right now, but I do find this a fascinating topic. 😆

I work in a role that has to take the declining population into account and how that will affect schools in the near and distant future, but recently have been looking into how that will carry forward in years to come such as an ageing population with less workers, how that then moves on to a drop in the labour workforce and how sectors like healthcare will be affected.

I do agree with a previous poster who said they don’t believe in children being born into families who can’t afford a coat, shoes etc for their children and if someone is struggling that much perhaps they should consider having children however things like the 30 hours childcare, universal credit etc are all necessities needed to keep the birth rate somewhat higher.

I think the issue isn’t parents being able to afford children in some cases, it’s about the quality of parent you want to be. I believe there are definitely parents who struggle financially but they are smart and buy second hand or reuse items for younger siblings. Make sacrifices to go without so that their children can have what they need. Unfortunately there are people out there who aren’t willing to go without for the bettering of their children whether they are high or low income.