Why are so many Mumsnetters like this and how representative are they of parents in general?

[Ilvergate]

Why are many of the posters on here so well -informed and pushy about the educational system for the benefit of their kids? (Not necessarily a bad thing).

Ie they seem to know so much about Oxbridge from admissions details like what to prioritise and how to perform at interview; private vs grammar schools etc details; knowing about the best tutors for their kids; being well-informed about A-level choice and GCSE choice etc.

It’s almost like they went to Oxbridge themselves or work there!

I must admit I have grown to resent my parents because of this. Neither of them went to university; neither knew anything about A-levels/GCSEs in terms of being able to give me advice about which to choose or which university to apply for; neither could give any Oxbridgey advice to me; I went to a state school even though there was a local grammar school that was well-performing that I perhaps could have gained a place at but my parents were clueless about the 11+ etc.

Obviously they want/wanted the best for me but it has been more a case of me having to specifically ask them to get a private tutor if I needed one rather than them actively seeking one; or, if at the time of the 11+ I had been aware of it, it would have been a case of me telling them about it and asking them to help me acquire the tools to prepare for it rather than them guiding me.

I’m just wondering are the posters on here representative of the majority of parents in the country or are they just special? Were their parents the same for them or are they being different for the sake of their children?

The MNers you see posting about this stuff are an elite minority and are NOT representative of the average parent in the UK. Your parents would be much more the 'norm'. Your feelings are valid though, if you were bright and missed out because your parents didn't have the educational/financial/social capital to help you make the most of it. The class system here can be unfair.

One thing I always have to remind myself about There was no internet back then !!

So when I think, why did my parents not do this, or even why did I not do that - there was just so little information available if you didn’t know someone who knew.

I am not that clued up but did read a lot of MN threads about education. We have no background of privilege and certainly not much money but by reading up on things I was able to help steer the dcs. Whereas I - to my detriment - was on my own back in the day.

You say it's "almost as if" they went to Oxbridge themselves or work there. Well, obviously, some of us did/do.

I went to a state comprehensive. My parents were supportive but not remotely pushy. I was bright and ended up in Cambridge. I have spent significant portions of my adult life working in higher education and other professional roles which have given me substantial contact with the education sector. Plus I volunteer as a school governor. So I'm interested and reasonably well informed.

I don't think that has translated to "pushy parenting" in the slightest, but of course, I was interested and involved when my dd came round to looking at universities etc. Most parents are naturally going to do their best to support their kids in whatever way they know how.

Of course, it is unfair and it isn't a level playing field. This is why we need positive action to reach those kids who don't have access to good guidance from home - organisations like the Sutton Trust do try to tackle this, but of course, their resources will be limited and they won't be able to reach all kids who might benefit. As to the extent to which informed and engaged parents are "the norm", it is inevitably a spectrum - some parents will have a deep and detailed knowledge, some will have a certain level of understanding and others will have no understanding or knowledge at all.

It's all a bit relative really. To a parent who's very relaxed about educational outcomes, a parent who does a bit of research to make it likelier their kid goes to a good school, and takes some interest in how they do would seem wildly uptight. To a parent who strategises their kids' entire school years, anyone doing any less might seem negligent.

I think most parents sit somewhere in the middle and they do look around and investigate a bit but they're not going to mount a massive plan to manoeuvre their kids into the best possible education ever.

Depends a lot on the education your received and your experience of it too.

My parents knew nothing about university and I was the first in the family to go. They knew I was good at school, encouraged me to study and left it at that!
In fact, I DID have a chance at Oxbridge ( a teacher was helping ) but mum and dad left it up to me and I chose not to pursue it. ‘Oxbridge’ quite honestly didn’t mean that much in my region/community other than it was where posh kids went. I certainly didn’t want to be the poorest kid at Oxford and I didn’t like the patronising attitude of the interviewers!Thought they were twats without much of a clue about real life… even at 17 I could that.

There are 163 Grammar school in England so most people will be clueless about the 11+
And most people won't be going to Oxford or Cambridge either.

The English MCs and Upper MCs seem obsessed with Oxbridge on here, but the reality is - it’s still the posh kids who get in and not the brightest or most deserving …

I’m sure your parents gave you advantages that others didn’t have. Grammar and Oxbridge are not success.

Yup! My parents are loving, kind and unwaveringly supportive. I have friends from very wealthy background who got shipped off to boarding school or private schools and pretty much ignored by their parents after that. Massive pressure to be ‘successful’ over happy, get the right job, marry the right sort, go the the ‘right’ university…
I know which I’d choose if I had to do it over, and I still would have turned down that Oxbridge place even knowing what Inknow now and understanding better the ‘kudos’ of going there means to some people.

I wouldn't know where to start with 11+ or Oxbridge but EHCP's, SENCO's, tricky LA's and DLA forms? I'm your person.

DM was the same, (absent father). She sent us to school, but that was about it. She showed no interest. Any extras I did were instigated by me. I was hopeless at studying, and lacked the confidence to ask for help. I wish I'd been more studious and able to push myself.

DN, (DS daughter), had a similar upbringing. She's so bright, but was left to choose her path with no input from DPs. She wanted to go to uni and visited one on her own, but felt out of her depth and gave up the idea of going. I'm really pleased that in her early 30s, she's doing the degree she always wanted to do.

I always wanted to have a parent who would be interested and clued up re education.

I went to Cambridge.

my dad did go to uni but he went to the local one and failed his first year twice.

neither of them had a clue.

It’s not that much different than the - albeit much smaller - subset of London parents of girls for whom the be all and end all is to get them into SPGS ( “best” girls school in the country, academically). It’s all about status and cachet for some and for others, they recognise that there’s a far greater changes of succeeding in life having had an education like Oxbridge, or indeed SPGS. Of course it depends on a person’s definition of life success; it may not be the same definition for a person in a deprived northern town vs the chattering classes in the south east.
The Americans are no different, a google of the Ivy League scandal a few years ago would tell you the same thing (google Felicity Huffman or watch the Netflix show).

I grew up in fairly humble circumstances. My parents were the first generation of their families to stay at school til they were 16 and I was in the first generation to go to University. They encouraged me, but it was absolutely impossible for them to help or advise me.
I applied to Oxbridge. It was a disaster. Looking back on it I was embarrassingly unprepared. Rabbit in the headlights is an under statement. No contextual offers in those days and despite being at least as academically successful as the other candidates I met it was clear that I, in my sister's best shoes and a suit my Mum bought me off the market was at best an object of pity and at worst someone to ridicule. What little self confidence I had was destroyed before I went in for my interview and it went as you might expect it to. It was highly unpleasant and humiliating.
Do I blame my parents for any of that? Not at all. They were incredibly proud that I was even going to an interview. They had zero knowledge of what to expect. When I got back I told them I'd had a lovely time and everyone was very kind. They didn't need to know. I was a bit angry with school but with hindsight what did they know? Only a dozen or so pupils went to University every year and nobody else had applied for Medicine or to Oxbridge in at least the previous few years. And as a PP said there was no Internet so no chance of finding out about other people's experiences. The only people to blame are those who were unpleasant to me. These days it is so much easier to research these things, and to come to sites this like this and get up to date, even if you don't have that type of experience yourself. But even then, you need to know what you don't know in order to ask, and lots of parents don't. That doesn't make them bad, stupid or uncaring.
C'est la vie. I went to a good red brick University, had fun, learned a lot and have had a reasonably happy and successful career.
There are some posters on here who seem to think that if your child doesn't get a full set of 9s followed by straight A stars from a Mumsnet approved school and then a first in one of a few subjects from one of a small number of Universities then they are doomed to a life of poverty and misery. Real life isn't like that and there is more than one route to a happy and successful life. There's lots of good advice to be found here but it can lead to unrealistic expectations sometimes too.

how representative are they of parents in general?

Not at all representative. They're a small section of the affluent middle and upper-middle class.

What a lovely post 😊

I think they stand out because they're different, not because they're typical.

My parents and dh’s were very hands off. Supportive but very little help/insight in some ways (my parents helped pay for college and drove me frequently).
When I had children I was way more involved and helpful.
Then as a grand mom I’m happy to delve into sport and educational stuff if asked.
Well pleased with DGD’s secondary school choice. I may have picked the schools but her parents did loads of prep.
Backstory; son in law had a horrible horrible state school experience very traumatized in a life changing way. Vowed to never send his children to state school yet knew nothing of private school or such.

Being different, definitely. I'm a single mum with a ds17. I'm walking him through the A'level and uni application process at the moment.

My f was the opposite. He didn't believe in the education of women, and did everything he possibly could to stop me from going. I applied last minute without his knowledge, with the help of a supportive teacher.

I told them just before I left. It was a real leap in the dark. There were no loans when I went so it was very hand to mouth for the first couple of terms. 😊

I think a lot of people think they know more about Oxbridge interviews than they really do. Even if you yourself had an interview 30 years ago that doesn't actually qualify to speak authoritively on the subject!

Well, not necessarily. My parents were not only illiterate, they were rather poor parents, with a far larger number of children than they could afford, ignored a neighbour I overheard suggesting they sent me to a better secondary than the nearest one, which was notorious for drugs and discipline problems (it would have risked ‘looking above ourselves’), and tried to encourage me to leave school at fifteen. I still got to Oxford off my own bat. I’ve spent most of my working life as an academic at various UK and Irish universities, so inevitably know some things. Having said that, I’m not a hovering or pushy parent. DS goes to the nearest (state) school.

I don't think it is representative tbh. Parents will have more access to information now than my parents did when I grew up in 90's, but that still doesn't mean they will necessarily prioritise finding out more about education. People have different priorities and capacities. For some keeping a roof over their head and food in their mouths takes all their capacity.

Neither of my parents went to university (well my Dad did OU in his 50's) but they did their best to source information. My brother went to a private school on a scholarship, they gave huge amounts of information about the UCAS process, tips for success etc. My comp gave us no help, but my parents took the knowledge from my brother to help me - we did about 100 drafts of my personal statement for example. The fact that my parents even sourced the scholarship shows the importance they put on education, and what they lacked in knowledge they made sure to source, from a determination that we would have a nuch easier life than them. But with that came quite a lot of pressure.

My girls are even more fortunate, we have both the ability and enthusiasm to help they go as far as they want. We also have access though to knowledge around the impact on mental health of being pushed too hard, to know when to push and when to give them a breather.

The attainment gap should be narrowing as access to information is so much better now, but it still doesn't replace supportive invested parents

I think it’s rather unusual to find nothing of worth in your upbringing, but if that was your experience I’m so sorry. Do your siblings feel the same? It’s interesting that a failing you highlight is being sent to the nearest school, yet doing the same for your own child. What was your rationale.

The posters on here are representative of people posting on a subject they feel they know something about. Just like posters on the doghouse feel they know something about dogs and therefore post what they know about dogs in response to a question about dogs.

The mumsnetters that don't know/ don't care about the Oxbridge admissions system are off elsewhere. So no, not representative and not special either.

A minority of people are obsessed & it almost becomes a project. The right primary school, then the right secondary, the right A-levels, Oxbridge etc. Also if you are in a particular circle it can be your normal as everyone else is obsessed. It's generally always mothers though, fathers seem to be a lot more relaxed.