To Think that Grad & Apprenticeships are now only for Diversity Candidates

[reallyreallycrazy]

Slight hyperbole but not far off.

Yes, of course I suppose my DS should be appreciative of his 'white privilege' (I do detest the term though), but he's been applying to over 100 x spring & summer internships and apprenticeships.

Invariably, he finds that lots of programmes are only open to black/female/social mobility/ND candidates. In one recent case - a global consultancy - there were NO openings for anyone outside of these categories.

And today, on LinkedIn, he forwarded me several links from leading banks reaching out about apprenticeships etc. In most photos, you might be lucky to spot 1-2 white males and in the video of one, there were not a single white male (or female for that matter).

I get that these firms need to do outreach to disadvantaged groups but if you look at the population level percentage of the various group categories, this really has swung too far the other way.

I get that many of these organisations have years to catch up with diversity hires but to try to rebalance in such an aggressive way and in a short space of time, makes it very difficult for young, white males (unless they have qualified for 'free school meals') to get a foot in the door which is especially tough in an incredibly tough grad market as it is.

And Oxbridge are rowing back on this at a very fast pace because they realise that positive discrimination wasn’t getting the best students. And they want the best students.

The BoE are based in London and their staff demographics don’t reflect London’s demographics. They’re probably trying to even it up. Hence this initiative, which is not needed for their white intake.

Saying BoE staff is 80% white ≠ BoE shouldn’t have white staff.

It’s like you have assumed that all black or brown people are automatically victims of discrimination and oppression which in my view is pretty patronising and has been rejected by many successful, high achieving black and brown people.

What is your source? From (an admittedly quick) Google, I’m getting:

• Strategic Plan 2024-27: The University has recently released its Collegiate University EDI Strategic Plan (2024-2027), which emphasizes that EDI is integral to their mission in teaching and
• Active Programs: The University continues to run programs like the Astrophoria Foundation Year, Opportunity Oxford, and Academic Futures to support underrepresented students.

Lol, have you assumed I’m white?

BoE appears to disagree with you. Its statement is quite clear that to do its jobs well it feels it needs to reflect the society it serves, which means addressing underrepresentation of certain groups. So regardless of whether its an issue for PP, it's an issue for them. And it's probably fair to say they know their work better than people on here.

So you’re suggesting that racial quotas for staff should be based on location demographics now? That will make HRs recruitment job even more interesting.

They also have offices based in Leeds so how many white employees are they allowed to have in Leeds? Will they say to a white candidate “you performed brilliantly at interview but we have too many white people working in London so we’ll have to relocate you to Leeds to give you a job”.

It would be fascinating for organisations based in my area, they would obviously not be required to have any racial quota at all as there are hardly any black or brown people here.

I have never heard people talking like that, no. Who?

And it's probably fair to say they know their work better than people on here.

I doubt it. According to HR experts they have probably set some arbitrary recruitment quota and are at the mercy of their EDI department. Listen to Tanya de Grunwald’s podcast on this, it’s fascinating.

Are they going to ensure they get below average IQ people as well as above average too? I think we ought to know.

It's ludicrous to imagine that the best students are found disproportionately in private schools. Simply barmy.

I agree, but the fellows of Trinity college Cambridge disagree. And they probably know more about it than either of us.

Studies show up to 76% of black people and 67% of Asian people in the UK have experienced discrimination at work. Which, as its not 100%, stands to reason some will not have experienced it. Its also not unsurprising there is a link between success and not experiencing discrimination.
The percentages are still worryingly high though, arent they? And a bit like the NAMALTers, you can't wipe out the existence of the bad by diverting attention to the good.
My takeaway from this is that without discrimination POC are achieving great things, so all the more reason for initiates to counter its effects for the majority that do.

No, they are probably extending their class privilege to the next generation.

Actually experienced discrimination or perceived that they had?

White able bodied males will with onconscious bias lean towards white able bodied males in the selection process. Where there are under-represented groups, these target programmes are needed.to bring in unrepresented groups. Its as simple as that. Diversity is hugely improving - compared to when I started working 30 years ago . I am glad we have focused recruitment like this. For me to agree with you, you would need to provide me with hard statistics which prove your point - "everyone I know says xyz" doesnt not reflect local/national/internatiional figures and facts.

All the best to your son. He will find something.

The second is usually accepted as an indicator of the first. However, you got me. I haven't personally reviewed the situation of every single POC who has reported discrimination and checked their account against witness statements. Because that would involve interrogating 1.8m black people and and 3.7m Asian people and that's a lot of work. However even if as you appear to be implying, some POC may be imagining things, you'd need to discredit a lot of people to suggest there's not a problem, wouldn't you?

Finding something is not the same as being able to apply for a job ou would love to do, no matter what colour or background you have,

My dc are unable to apply for jobs they would like to do. They are discrimated against. I am not interested in hearing my dc miss out on opportunities because years ago things were different. We know. It doesn't mean young people now should suffer.

Young people also think- from the ones I've listened to who fall into minority groups - anyone should be able to apply. The best person for the job at the time.

Countering the effects of discrimination by creating more discrimination though?

Making big generalisations about a group of people and writing policies on the back of that is just divisive though.

For example, the Bank of England appears to have assumed that all black people are poor and need to be given an extra £5000 that white people are not given, regardless of their financial situation. That just creates resentment and division as well as being a clumsy generalisation.

It means that David Lammy’s children would be eligible for the B of E internship paying an extra £5000 but the white kid from a council estate is not. How does that make any sense?

You’ll need to add in the growing number of white people experiencing discrimination. It appears to be under-reported, is growing in large organisations and if these threads are anything to go by, condoned or actively supported by many.

Yes. 5% of white people reported experiencing race discrimination. Some of these of course, were people who are white but not British, so their discrimination was based on nationality or ethnicity, rather than skin colour.
How do you know its a growing problem and under reported?

No. Eligibility requires the applicant to be both black and have lower socio economic status. No assumptions made. Makes sense.

so why lower socio economic status AND black? why not any lower socio economic status?

do you know what lower socio economic status white people will do? yes, correct, vote Reform. Not sure if this is what minorities want though

But the lower socio economic status is what i dont understand. Who is deciding which jobs are eligible? Why are train drivers considered working class when that job is one of the top 10 best paid jobs in the country?

It seems the government have decided, due to it falling under manual/technical occupation.