To Think that Grad & Apprenticeships are now only for Diversity Candidates

[reallyreallycrazy]

Slight hyperbole but not far off.

Yes, of course I suppose my DS should be appreciative of his 'white privilege' (I do detest the term though), but he's been applying to over 100 x spring & summer internships and apprenticeships.

Invariably, he finds that lots of programmes are only open to black/female/social mobility/ND candidates. In one recent case - a global consultancy - there were NO openings for anyone outside of these categories.

And today, on LinkedIn, he forwarded me several links from leading banks reaching out about apprenticeships etc. In most photos, you might be lucky to spot 1-2 white males and in the video of one, there were not a single white male (or female for that matter).

I get that these firms need to do outreach to disadvantaged groups but if you look at the population level percentage of the various group categories, this really has swung too far the other way.

I get that many of these organisations have years to catch up with diversity hires but to try to rebalance in such an aggressive way and in a short space of time, makes it very difficult for young, white males (unless they have qualified for 'free school meals') to get a foot in the door which is especially tough in an incredibly tough grad market as it is.

I recommend you read the research article "Ethnic Penalties and Hiring Discrimination: Comparing Results from Observational Studies with Field Experiments in the UK".
3 researchers analysed numerous studies that showed people from ethnic minorities have consistently been half as likely to be invited to interview regardless of whether they're good enough for the role. The long and the short of it is that over the years, minorities have consistently been denied the chance to interview because their name sounds foreign.

The study does touch on how certain minorities can overcome this due to their own social networks etc. But certain ethnicities can't.

Targeted schemes don't discriminate. They even out the balance and ensure that this doesn't keep happening.

journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0038038520966947 research article

They may be. They might not be. If an organisation just hires for the best and finds it diverse that's fine. Measuring and publishing DEI is all work hogwash. Just hire who is best and treat employees with respect and decency.

There is no such thing and it’s only people with no experience of recruitment who say this.

the vast majority of roles many people can do. They are not so incredibly challenging that only one person can competently perform in them and the rest are inferior.

when I interview, thanks to shortlisting and screening rounds I should be interviewing a pool of people who can all do the job. And that’s all I want right? The job done well.

so if that’s a basic, I can then spend time interviewing based on potential, leadership, cultural fit and creativity. I’m not hard pressed to find the “best person for the job”. Thats the easy part.

You sound very naive about the recruitment process, unconscious bias etc.

so if that’s a basic, I can then spend time interviewing based on potential, leadership, cultural fit and creativity

@Bambamhoohoo what is ‘cultural fit’?

My brother was a hiring manager for a high paid, city job and went to a recruiter to get candidates, he was sent a list of potential candidates with salary expectations, all experienced and skilled, one who ticked two diversity boxes (female, ethnic minority) had higher salary expectations despite not much more experience than the other candidates and the recruiter said that's how it is now these candidates can ask for more as companies want to show diversity.

I suppose market forces are at play, as always.

When it gets to hiring they still hire the white men, dsd got to group interview many times but the ultra aggressive men shouting her down in the group exercises got the jobs (they published pictures of the intake on their websites). Anything to help others be better prepared for that recruitment process is good

Who is going to work well with stakeholders and team? Who is going to best reflect and live the companies values? Who represents the ambitions of the organisation?

Everyone has unconscious biases. It's a fact of life. It's just how people are. I assume in other parts of the world biases are reversed. It's just how we as humans are.

My brown DS was hired at his job after 2 rounds of interviews. In both rounds the interview panel were all white men. In the first round the head of the team absolutely loved it that he and DS both studied at the same uni and both developed the same interest in the same field via the same modules. The man saw DS's genuine passion for the field and really wanted to hire him.

My brown DH is well paid and does well at this company and is recognised for it.

Maybe your DSD should have been more vocal and taken a leading role in the group exercise.

@Bambamhoohoo
Thank you for answering my question.

I’m interested in how much you’ve questioned your DHs (brilliant) achievements in terms of whether his outcomes really are a true reflection of his success and value? You say:

“There is no problem. DH and I are Indian. My DH has had a successful corporate career in the UK. Works very hard, works long hours and makes around £130k in a big 4 organisation.”

how would it make you feel if I told you I have a friend who earns more than £130k in a big 4, having only been there for 3 years and came from local government? And- she doesn’t even work full time, let alone long hours.

shes great but she hasn’t had a “successful corporate career” a- yet out earns him.

and that’s not even the point- these 2 people may well be completely incomparable.

My point was more that you think £130k is a just reward for a successful long and hard working career with a high paying employer, yet others don’t see that as a reflection of those things at all, but simply what they expect for rocking up everyday.

often marginalised people are so grateful their lot, so grateful to be at the table at all that they don’t realise how much more others are getting for the same thing.

It’s something that as a woman I remind myself of a lot.

This was certainly true for my son's grad scheme which was a well known bankand there was around 80 grads. There were only around 15 white men, and half women.

The sad thing was there were no Northerners, Scottish or Welsh people, and the vast majority of grads were from very privalidged backgrounds i.e average parent had two homes and they were educated at private school, a lot of family wealth and connections- relatives had jobs in similar industries.
My son was from the least well off background, divorced parents and we are renters, family problems etc. but he found all the grads- although they come from other cultural backgrounds they are very similar.

Im so sick of Trump politics being dragged over here. You are just stirring up trouble needlessly, OP.

One hiring panel I was on had blank CVs, etc., only —no names, sex, religion, etc., even to the point that current workplaces were blanked out so you couldn't snoop; we picked our shortlist based on the merits presented to us in their opening CV's / letters.

The short list was four women/three men.

I work in Insurance - Banking Capital Markets in London - one of the most diverse cities in the UK. I am the only black senior manager in the entire department. I have only ever had 1 black graduate to manage, in all my 10 years all graduates / interns hired have been nearer 8 white males and 2 white females per intake. I think you are really referencing very incorrect information based on website pictures.

@HelpMeUnpickThis Just because your company doesn’t report its diversity or under represented groups stats, doesn’t mean others don’t or that they have not changed recruitment policies! You obviously work in a rear facing organisation because others like the positive optics of a varied workforce. I assume you aren’t senior enough to influence anything or get your company’s employment stats. If you do see them, do they reflect your experience globally and in the whole of the UK?

Wow i am not senior enough to have influence? I was chairperson of the D and I committee for 2 and half years and have run countless workshops for very senior leadership describing my experience and making recommendations. But thanks for your assessment @OhDear111

@OhDear111 i work for a global organisation - what makes you think we dont report our stats?

Congrats to her! I cannot ascertain her career journey from this MN post alone.

I think this is a sensible way to do it. I'd remove names, sex and religion. But keep uni and previous work experience as it's relevant to their skills and knowledge.

Interesting. One of my nieces failed to progress further in the recruitment process twice due to being told she was ‘too assertive’ and interrupted men at two different group exercises at law firms. She said it was the only way to get a word in. Ironically she interrupted with an ‘excuse me’ to say that it would be good to hear the views of those in the group who hadn’t yet had the chance to speak …. !

And neither should you. But doesn’t it make you wonder whether £130k is really a fair reflection of long hours and hard work in a successful corporate career?

or could it be that your brown DH hasn’t, actually, had the reward he deserved after all?

A lot of consulting firms are radically chopping their grad schemes because of AI so a lot of summer schemes will also be affected. They’re not acting against white males, they just aren’t hiring as many (sometimes any) grads.

It’s not just jumping on the back of what Trump’s doing. People have legitimate concerns about what’s happening in this country and we are allowed to discuss it.