AIBU expecting employers to pay casual employees holiday pay automatically?

[Redfibee]

My DD's employer did not tell her that she was entitled to holiday pay, and when she asked, did not tell her the full process. Hence she has lost almost 10 hours of holiday pay, worth over £120.

She has been working as a casual employee, earning £12.21 / hour, and the holiday pay is worth an extra £1.47 / hour.

More ethical companies pay holiday pay automatically.

My DD works for a large employer. She has to ask Payroll how many hours she is owed, and then she has to pass this information on to her manager, who books it as annual leave. She also has to do this by 31st Dec, or the money is written off.

My DD has raised a grievance, which has not had a positive response. Despite several requests, they still have not sent her the standard process they keep referring to. By withholding the process from their employees, and therefore their holiday pay, they are saving £000's every year THAT THEIR EMPLOYEES HAVE EARNED!.

Please spread my post far and wide. I believe that there are probably thousands of vulnerable casual / zero hours employees out there who are not being paid all the money they are owed.

Does she not have an employment contract that explains about holiday pay/leave?

By paid automatically, what do you mean?

Increase her hourly wage, and then make her take holiday unpaid? We had a guy on contract with this deal, and he basically took no holiday, giving himself an effective payrise. I thought this had been banned?

Have an automatic system for an employee to track her holiday entitlement? Sounds like there is a system for this, it's just not particularly streamlined.

Just pay holiday when requested - yep, but you still need to know what holiday you've earned - see above.

So the system is

The employee asks Payroll how many hours they've earned.

The employee tells their manager how many hours they've earned.

The manager tells Payroll to pay the hours.

If the employee doesn't request the holiday pay it isn't paid.

If it's not claimed by 31st Dec Payrolll write it off.

So Payroll could simply do the right thing and pay the employee what they are owed. Instead of putting the onus on the employee. This isn't difficult. My company does this, as does the YHA, WJEC and the Army.

It's a way for an employer to take advantage of what are often the lowest paid, more vulnerable employees.

Because the company does not tell employees what the system is.

She has an employment contract that tells her about annual leave but does not mention holiday pay.

It's should be in the contact. I'm a bank staff member for the NHS and get a higher rate of pay instead of holiday pay. Talk to HR re this as it should be covered when she signs the contact. I've worked for the council previously as bank as similar...got paid higher rate of pay. It's always mentioned in the documents you sign. If not it needs to be discussed with hr.

That's v confusing. Are companies in the UK not obliged to pay off all AL accrued at the end of their holiday year? Or are they supposed to, but this company just doesn't and hopes the causal employees will never kick up a fuss?

I ve worked with this it’s no different than if you work FT
you accrue A/L as you go save it up and book a shift that you get paid for
they can’t tell you your A/L entitlement as they don’t know because the don’t know how n as my hours your going to be working

very simple but that said it was made clear at interview how it worked .From memory think it was 12% easy to look at your wage slip you’d see how many hours you’d work then calculate holiday at 12%

nobody is going to spoon feed you this info you have to ask . I’m not sure what basis she has for a grievance the info is there or was she expecting them to give her a running total as she earned

There’s a legal obligation for employers to ensure employees take a minimum number of days leave per year - 28 for a full time employee which includes bank holidays

no
one company I worked for was use it by the end of the year or lose it
another was you can roll over a week. But loose anything over that

Irrelevant for casual work as your holiday entitlement varies depending on how many hours you work

I worked seasonally for a supermarket years ago. Holiday pay was made automatically and was a nice bonus. I’d never have known to ask about it, I never took annual leave as I worked irregular hours.

No it's just pro rata to 5.6 weeks. Still obligation for employer to make sure employee takes it.

This is different though.

A permanent employee who has the ability to take holiday and hasn’t been prevented from doing so can lose their holiday.

Casual employees who can’t take holiday should be paid it automatically with an uplift to their hourly pay.

Payroll cannot write off legally owed money. Companies can’t just make up rules that are against the law.

She would absolutely win in small claims court.

Your holiday pay must be included in your pay. You can’t not pay holidays pay, that’s illegal.

I work as bank staff for a company and every payslip shows my hourly rate plus holiday pay, as in they just tack the extra 12% or whatever it is onto my hourly rate.

Every company I ever work for the onus was on me to book and take my holiday

Zero hours staff get a pay uplift and no leave entitlement.
Are you certain it hasn’t been paid by enhanced rate?

Every company dh has ever worked for the onus is on his to check leave accrued and use it.
They are usually told the accrue say for example 1 day per week worked. Its up to them to keep track and request the holidays off

Raising a grievance is precisely how to be remembered for all the wrong reasons.

Some companies do it that way but not all. If she's been told she had to request it and has lost it then they can't have been doing it that way.

No one has to TAKE 28 days a year, they get 28 days a year, if full time. Casual workers accrue pro rata so need to find out how much they have. That seems ok to me. As is asking for your leave - how do you think salaried full time employees take leave? I have to talk to my team and put it in the system.
but it should have been in her contract, and I’m not sure if it’s legal to lose it if not taken. It might be as companies don’t expect to accrue leave liabilities for casual workers.

It’s really really not. The employer does not have to make sure you take leave. It’s not reception and leave isn’t toilet breaks. Why do you think companies all have different policies on rolling leave over? Because they don’t have to make staff take all their leave in a year. They have to provide legal levels of leave and not unreasonably block you from taking it. Note the ops dds employer are not unreasonably blocking’s

Everyone gets 5.6 weeks, it just works out as 28 days if you work a five day week.

I have a casual contract. I get around 11% extra on my pay due to holiday pay. It’s pretty standard, rather than everyone booking imaginary shifts to then be paid for! That would be payroll chaos if people started booking unworked shifts of random lengths among the real shifts. Imagine keeping track of the rota.

But if you look it up on gov.uk they actually provide a calculator to work out holiday entitlement for bank or casual staff. Not everyone does it the same as your employer.

You need to advise ACAS as they disagree with you.