AIBU expecting employers to pay casual employees holiday pay automatically?

[Redfibee]

My DD's employer did not tell her that she was entitled to holiday pay, and when she asked, did not tell her the full process. Hence she has lost almost 10 hours of holiday pay, worth over £120.

She has been working as a casual employee, earning £12.21 / hour, and the holiday pay is worth an extra £1.47 / hour.

More ethical companies pay holiday pay automatically.

My DD works for a large employer. She has to ask Payroll how many hours she is owed, and then she has to pass this information on to her manager, who books it as annual leave. She also has to do this by 31st Dec, or the money is written off.

My DD has raised a grievance, which has not had a positive response. Despite several requests, they still have not sent her the standard process they keep referring to. By withholding the process from their employees, and therefore their holiday pay, they are saving £000's every year THAT THEIR EMPLOYEES HAVE EARNED!.

Please spread my post far and wide. I believe that there are probably thousands of vulnerable casual / zero hours employees out there who are not being paid all the money they are owed.

I expect if her mother is writing about this type of thing on MN, then a fair few elements of her life will also be “unfair”. Most companies have a “use it or lose it” approach to annual leave. Your daughter’s company seems a bit complex but nothing to raise a grievance over. Why can’t she just take the day of holiday?

I don’t know the legalities but it certainly seems immoral to not be at the very least advising these staff members that they’ll need to book holidays or claim the pay. I agree it’s horrible when it’s often the most vulnerable and youngest workers. Small claims?

OP I work in this area and I agree for truly casual work a decent company will pay rolled up holiday pay at 12.07% on top of basic pay. Anything else means staff are often losing out on holiday pay. Casual staff are very different to perm staff, they don’t take holiday as such, they just don’t accept shifts. Having to go through a system of requesting accrued hours is blatantly designed to make sure they pay less holiday pay.

The only reason not to frankly is to try to evade paying the employees their legal entitlement to holiday.
Employers are actually legally obliged to ensure that workers can take their holiday entitlement, I do think in this case they are in breech of this if they haven’t provided a mechanism.
OP- ACAS is where you need to get advise, not here or through a grievance

No, they don’t. Employees are entitled to take their leave. Employers must have a set up that permits employees to take their accrued leave. They do not have to ensure or require employees take all their leave, in some circumstances they can require employees to take some leave at a particular time, or restrict them from taking some leave at a particular time, for business purposes, but they may not restrict employees from taking their leave unreasonably. Otherwise all the employees who roll leave into the next year would be unlawfully doing so. www.acas.org.uk/checking-holiday-entitlement/asking-for-and-taking-holiday

No often, especially if on min wage it’s use it or lose it. The only time they do need to pay it is if you quit then you’ll be paid you’re accrued holiday pay for that year.

My daughter has worked for 3 different companies on a casual basis and each one she accrued leave according to the hours she worked and to get holiday pay had to request the hours as holiday in the usual way.

That’s also how my company does it. (I run payroll)

she should have been given a statement of terms etc and told how to book holiday.

rolled up holiday pay used to be illegal but is now allowed as long as the holiday pay is itemised on the payslip.

the employer has to ensure that holiday is able to be taken. Up to 4 weeks can be carried over if a worker is unable to take their holiday, the employer doesn’t encourage them to take it or doesn’t inform them they will lose it if not taken.

Hi OP - I think a lot of pps above are discussing what applies in salaried/non-casual jobs.
I work in a term only job and my contract specifically says my holiday leave is included in my salary- so I get paid the same every month for the full year - even though (it’s a school) I’m obviously not there when school is closed.
However, I can request leave (unpaid parental, holiday etc) and then payroll reduces my salary for that month.
Your DD needs to check her contract because it probably does specify that she is to contact payroll. There’s no other way for payroll to do the calculations correctly if she doesn’t have set specified hours as I do.
She probably overlooked it when she received her contract- check it and then if it’s not in her contract she might be justified in talking to HR/payroll:her employer.

I'm retired now, but my last employer paid an enhanced hourly rate for people on ZHC's.

They also had an online leave management system where all staff could check how much leave they'd accrued and how much they had left to take.

It was also monitored by managers who would point out if people had lots of leave accrued and none planned, and remind them to take it. And you could carry a week's leave forward to the following year.

DD is on a zero hours contract, working at a local venue, staffing events. She got holiday pay, we were both suprised, didn’t know it happened… she would not have thought to ask

I am on a zero hours casual contract, with an hourly rate and an A/L allowance per hour worked.

A/L money accrued is paid automatically in arrears twice a year, or I can request what I have accrued in between if I want it (there may be restrictions on how often etc, I haven't tried).

Companies can choose how to do it I have two GC who have been doing summer jobs in university holidays. They both got their accrued holiday pay with their final pay when they went back to uni which was a nice little extra.

From the gov.uk site

this guidance is focused on the legal minimum entitlement of 5.6 weeks’ paid holiday

From ACAS https://www.acas.org.uk/checking-holiday-entitlement

By law, workers are entitled to 5.6 weeks' statutory paid holiday a year.

I think the company is hoping no-one asks, so that they can write the money off.

So many casual employees don't even know they're entitled to holiday pay.

You are lucky. I wish it was illegal to withhold unpaid holiday pay

It's been written off.

What is unfair is expecting employees to follow a standard process that they are not told exists.

In which case I would advise your daughter to contact ACAS as holiday pay cannot be written off in the circumstances I listed above.

For clarification I will link to ACAS

Employers have a legal responsibility to make sure workers take the holiday they're entitled to. Employers should plan with workers when they will take holiday they accrue in the final pay period of the leave year.

https://www.acas.org.uk/irregular-hours-and-part-year-workers

Employers have a legal responsibility to make sure workers can take the holiday they're entitled to.
By law, a worker can carry over holiday if their employer:

• does not let them take all their holiday or does not encourage them to take it all
• does not inform a worker that they will lose any holiday they do not take

In these circumstances, they can carry over a maximum of 4 weeks' holiday entitlement.

https://www.acas.org.uk/checking-holiday-entitlement/carrying-over-holiday

As a casual worker how many hours equates to 4 weeks will be worked out on a 52 week reference period if she has been employed the whole year, or the average if she has worked a part year. I assume the 12.07% method will be used to work out the actual full entitlement.

I agree. But she hasn't been treated well. She has shifts reduced when she is working that shift. 8 hours reduced to 5.5 hours with an hours notice.

When we had a red weather warning her manager was persistent trying to get her to drive 20 miles through the storm to work. Most employers in the region either didn't open at all, or opened later in the day.

Workers must take the annual leave that they are entitled to and be paid when they take it. It is not acceptable for an employer to add an amount on top of a worker’s hourly rate to take account of holiday pay. This is known as ‘rolled up’ holiday pay. Following a Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU) decision,[footnote 10] this is unlawful as workers should be encouraged to take leave from work (receiving their normal level of pay while they are on holiday). Rolled up holiday pay acts as an unlawful disincentive to take holiday, as a worker’s hourly rate includes the additional top up amount. It can also result in an underpayment of a worker’s statutory holiday entitlement.

I have a zero hour contract and basically I get a percentage extra as holiday pay on each pay slip, depending how many hours I work. It is calculated and paid automatically.

That link above is outdated. Rolled up holiday pay was made legal again in April 2024 following changes to the Working Time Regulations

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/simplifying-holiday-entitlement-and-holiday-pay-calculations/holiday-pay-and-entitlement-reforms-from-1-january-2024#introduction

That's so logical, and easy too.

Call ACAS